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I've got a couple problems with this Dawnie. First off, let me say that there are experiences to be had on an athletic field that can't be had other places. I know that this is something you're going to call me a jock or meat-head for, but playing through pain with teammates is something that can't be compared to. My best friends in life I met through sports and I know I can count on them in any situation because we've been through battles (mentally AND physically) in the past.

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First, I didn't say that all team sports were wrong, I said if the kid didn't like them, don't force it. I have played team sports. Heck my family is no different than most others, we throw together a baseball game on occasion (or did when we were kids. I don't remember saying team sports were all together bad, they're just not for everyone, especially at school. I still played soccer on occasion, swam, skated, puff football.

But if you think the value of being smashed in public (I'm small, that happened a great deal) by someone three times your size makes you a better person, well that I disagree with. I learned about suffering when I broke my ankle skating in a competition, I've "worked through pain" and while it was an experience, I don't recommend it terribly highly. If you break your ankle, get off the damned ice stupid!

I remember many of the jocks that were friends (I did cheerlead for many years). Let's see...Brad is in jail for some kind of fraud...Mark is in jail for murder, Brian killed himself (could never live up to dad's expectations of being a professional basketball player) Bruce has knees that barely carry his frame anymore due to the football injuries...Ya it's all good ::eyes rolling again::

I've never tackled my closest friends, but when I faced a very difficult professional decision, they supported me. When I thought I had cancer, they were there for me, when I murdered my ex, they helped me move the bod...umm nevermind Anyhoo, despite our lack of team sport experience, I know they'll be with me through thick and thin. You can find friends like this througout life, and they don't have to be proven on the football field. Heck Mark (the murderer) hardly EVER called when I was in need of a friend...and he had all the time in the world!

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And your point about sports teaching children humiliation, what would you prefer? Since when did humility become a bad lesson to learn? I'm not saying that repeated humiliation is a good thing, but being put in your place every once in a while is a good thing. But, according to you, if you're not good at it in the first place, you should give up? Don't even bother working through it? What does that teach a child?

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I did NOT say if you're not good at it, give up. I don't believe in quitting without giving something a try. In fact I believe quite the opposite. Any parent who allows their child to do only what they will excell at, is a failed parent. They raise children who become adults who can't deal with failure. I married one of these. It took years of reconditioning to give that man the guts to do what HE wanted, even if he failed, verses what his mother felt would be good for him. I still remember my sister-in-law going out for Miss Chimacum My mother in law said, when she was filling out the application, "My god, you could lose!" She did, but she was a better person afterwards (mother in law didn't forgive me for encouraging her) Heck a kid can try something, and then if it's a fair try and then let it go. Believe me, they'll find humility somewhere along the line. Through life I've won many first places, but I've also come in towards the end of the same contests. I deal with failure just fine without having to stand in left field on a daily basis. But why force the kid to do what YOU want them to do. Let them fail at the things that interest them! It's much easier for a kid to want to try something they like, and to apply themselves because they chose it than if you did.

I played the violin for 16 years. I was really good. WHen I moved from my fathers home at the age of 18 I sold that stupid violin the first week. I HATED THE VIOLIN!!! My freaking father wanted me to achieve his dreams of being first chair of the junior symphony. He made me play that stupid thing when I wanted to skate. And you know what...I learned to play the damn thing, did win first chair, and turned it down So from my father's dream I learned spitefulness and that forcing a child to live your dream is just wrong.

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And you also say that you shouldn't force a kid to do anything he doesn't want to, even though you think it'd be good for him. What kind of logic is this? Do you think that children are always aware of what's good for them?

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I think it's terribly cruel to force a kid to do this type of thing if they don't want to.

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This is where my horrible eyesight caught your comment . I'm not trying to take it out of context, you made this comment in regards to being humiliated. There's no way to know if the child will be humiliated, won't like it, or just won't be good at it unless they try...

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I remember many of the jocks that were friends (I did cheerlead for many years). Let's see...Brad is in jail for some kind of fraud...Mark is in jail for murder, Brian killed himself (could never live up to dad's expectations of being a professional basketball player) Bruce has knees that barely carry his frame anymore due to the football injuries...Ya it's all good ::eyes rolling again::

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For every negative outcome, there are positive ones as well. I'd go out on a limb and guess (I remember seeing a stat a while back) that the majority of politicians in our country played sports...

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Oh dear...I think you might want to try another analogy for "good guys who come from sports". I'm not sure this group of folks is the best example. How about Pat Tillman instead?

For every bad there is a good, and every good there is a bad. I'm not arguing the value of sports, I'm saying there is no value in "force". And that, despite what you think, one can be just as good of a person having not played rugby than having played. I believe I clearly said that "Team" activities are great for kids. All the values a kid needs to learn in a sports team can be found on other types of team activities.

Also, I didn't and wouldn't say don't try. But having given it a try, why force? That's where the whole issue goes south. If a kid tries out for baseball and plays for a season, why on earth would you force them on to a second, third, etc. They tried, didn't like it, and that's it. How long does that take to figure out (if they've given it a fair try) well that is different given the child. Some kids give up on everything too soon, and should be ENCOURAGED to continue and some take four years. A kid praying for rain though...that's just sad.

And to clairfy the vegi issue We only got the second scoop if we didn't take a taste of the vegi of the day and chose whining as our tactic of avoidance. Normally this was my sister. I learned the dog loved everything but corn

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The problem I had was that you made sports seem like torture. Although it was for you (judging from your post), that doesn't mean it will be for someone else. "Forcing" failure on someone is a stretch if ever there was one. So you know how well the child will do? You're calling it cruel based on your experience. I remember thinking that having to eat my vegetables was cruel. I guess that if you think sports are "terribly cruel," where do you stop? Do you stop with things you enjoyed?

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But Baseball was torture, just standing in the outfield ready to take a nap. But my MOTHER insisted I play for over 10 years.

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I'm either too dumb to communicate my point or my opinion is wrong

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The child in question needed physical activity but obviously a group sport was not the ideal for her and it is not the ideal for all children.

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Kansayaku: Does this mean the kid was noticeably out of shape? If so, maybe it wasn't just team sports that made her whiny. Maybe it was any kind of physical activity. I would not recommend softball as the sport to use to get a kid in shape. There is a lot strategy and skill to playing the game, but also a lot of standing around and sitting. A child who is out of shape would benefit more from something like soccer. Constant activity.

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wow - now that's a new one... I would never of thought of sports in lieu of a babysitter, or the cost factor thereof! WOW.... that's just sad when you think about it.

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