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#374514 - 06/28/05 02:31 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Anon, just like the history you seem fixated on, my experience is that I know a lot of things about alot of things. Arrogant. Probably. Correct. Probably.
I mean how do I even respond to the Israel/Palestine comment you made. You asked for an example. What parameters are you looking for? Does it have to be over 25 bombings a year to count?
The Drudge report was just an insult. You didn't have to explain.
You insult; I respond intelligently and hopefully without malice.
It may not be the ideal situation to have 25 bombings a year in a country the size of Texas (Iraq), but I think the Iraqi people can live as a free people with that sort of activity. However, I do not think that will happen. These insurgents will go back to their countries or origin after a while. Their hatred for the Iraqi form of government will be supplanted by their greater hatred for the West and the Jews. They will not stay focused on Iraq in the long term. Will they disappear from Iraq? Not likely. Will they be a serious threat in the long run? Likewise, not likely.
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#374515 - 06/28/05 02:43 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Posts: 10,395
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If history is any indicator, slowly, but surely, these bombings, which have increased dramatically in a very short period of time, will become less and less frequent. If you don't believe me, show me any country in the world where rebels (not the ruling government) have continued a significant and widespread terror campaign over a decade or more.
As stated in another post:
Israel and Palestine
add to them
Northern Ireland
Spain (ETA)
Mexico (I'm counting the kidnappings as a terror campaign.)
Chechnya
All of these are proof that the Iraqi insurgency will not keep up the intensity it has maintained recently.
Maybe, maybe not. It has nothing to do with your point. Your actual challenge, captured above, was
"show me any country in the world where rebels (not the ruling government) have continued a significant and widespread terror campaign over a decade or more."
That's been done. This isn't a stretch, but I suspect your next move will be to assert some idiosyncratic definition of 'significant' that allows you to dismiss examples that don't suit your rhetorical purpose.
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#374516 - 06/28/05 03:03 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Your intelligence is debateable. My insult was without malice. You come off as being some quasi foreign affairs expert/psychiatrist. You make alot of authoritative assumptions which I have difficulty in believing. You sound like Bushie: make positive sounding assertions crafted as fact to garner support. I am only asking you to find more out about the culture of the middle east in general. Then you can move on to fit different pieces of the puzzle like radical fundamentalism and the traditional dynamic between sunnis and shiites. Good luck on your hunt! Nah, so much easier to assume things from our perspective are universal.
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#374517 - 06/28/05 03:04 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
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If history is any indicator, slowly, but surely, these bombings, which have increased dramatically in a very short period of time, will become less and less frequent. If you don't believe me, show me any country in the world where rebels (not the ruling government) have continued a significant and widespread terror campaign over a decade or more.
As stated in another post:
Israel and Palestine
add to them
Northern Ireland
Spain (ETA)
Mexico (I'm counting the kidnappings as a terror campaign.)
Chechnya
All of these are proof that the Iraqi insurgency will not keep up the intensity it has maintained recently.
Maybe, maybe not. It has nothing to do with your point. Your actual challenge, captured above, was
"show me any country in the world where rebels (not the ruling government) have continued a significant and widespread terror campaign over a decade or more."
That's been done. This isn't a stretch, but I suspect your next move will be to assert some idiosyncratic definition of 'significant' that allows you to dismiss examples that don't suit your rhetorical purpose.
What is significant? Any death by terrorism is significant. If it is one of your loved ones that is killed, one act of terrorism in 20 years is significant to you. But that is not what I am talking about. Maybe significant was the wrong word. What I meant is that the fundamentalist Muslim murderers will not sustain a level terrorism that disrupts the government and the economy like they are currently. (My point is not rhetorical at all. None of the examples you gave are of terrorists who have sustained a terror campaign over a decade or more at a level that was effective as what we are seeing in Iraq.)
The insurgents in Iraq are disrupting public services, disrupting the main product of the economy (oil), killing public servants on a weekly basis, etc.... Neither Iraq's government nor its economy can operate successfully with the current level of terrorism. Do you agree? The other countries you have named have a level of terrorism over the long run that has allowed them to continue to operate their governments and economy. It may not be the best circumstances, but they are able to operate.
Iraq's terrorism will be reduced to a level that will allow the government and economy to prosper. It will not be the ideal situation, but once most of these foreigners go home or blow themselves up, Iraq will be better off than they were with Saddam. I just don't believe Iraq will be a major fundamentalist Muslim terrorist rallying destination for decades to come.
Time will tell if I am wrong, but history is on the side of my predictions coming true.
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#374518 - 06/28/05 03:12 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Your intelligence is debateable. My insult was without malice. You come off as being some quasi foreign affairs expert/psychiatrist. You make alot of authoritative assumptions which I have difficulty in believing. You sound like Bushie: make positive sounding assertions crafted as fact to garner support. I am only asking you to find more out about the culture of the middle east in general. Then you can move on to fit different pieces of the puzzle like radical fundamentalism and the traditional dynamic between sunnis and shiites. Good luck on your hunt! Nah, so much easier to assume things from our perspective are universal.
My intelligence is debateable? You are the one debating with someone who you think has no idea what he is talking about. What does that say about your intelligence? 
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#374519 - 06/28/05 03:29 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Debating or educating
secondly, i find you rely on history too much to support your argument or point. history helps us to understand but it also helps us to realize that different eras and different groups of people can be unpredictable
thirdly, what are we discussing? are you trying to say that this Iraq engagment will die off on its on in a short time for lack of "fuel"? i feel that we are in capitualtive period and thus there is an unusual amount of violence which i think will wane but to meaningfully reduce the problems there we need to be much more holistic instead of Bushie's root 'em out and kill 'em dead policy.
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#374520 - 06/28/05 04:23 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Quote:
i feel that we are in capitualtive period and thus there is an unusual amount of violence which i think will wane but to meaningfully reduce the problems there we need to be much more holistic instead of Bushie's root 'em out and kill 'em dead policy.
You are definately a bright thinker with a vision. A holistic approach to terrorists who enter Iraq from throughout the middle east, then randomly kill innocents through suicide bombings, would definately go a long way toward making the U.S. appear more friendly. Taking a zero-tolerance approach toward terrorism is definately too harsh, and your idea for a softer, more considerate approach is surely a winning concept. Your idea is so good, I almost believe you are a State Department diplomat.
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#374521 - 06/28/05 04:33 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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No, I think the logical import of my comment suggested we need to do more than kill them like vermin which is what you suggest. Like there is a finite number of them. Why are you saying that I want to coddle these people? I haven't suggested that at all. We are at war with terror; people die in wars. I'm not some hippie with his head up his butt. I don't know what the right answer is, only god does but I'm sure it entails more than killing them off and waiting them out because they will eventually subside.
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#374522 - 06/28/05 04:35 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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I guess I could have made fun of you too for not knowing what holistic means.
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#374523 - 06/28/05 05:32 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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I think the logical import of my comment suggested we need to do more than kill them like vermin... which is what you suggest.
Why are you saying that I want to coddle these people?
I don't know what the right answer is, only god ( Sic ) does , but I'm sure it entails more than killing them off and waiting them out because they will eventually subside.
Would anybody doubt that someone who questions war with savage terrorists by saying, "We need to do more than killing 'them' like vermin", is obvioussly referencing the use of the term "holistic" to mean looking at the whole or interdependence of other more friendly measures other than war.
This is nothing more than a softy lefty who won't make his point and, instead, obfuscates while trying to sound like a person with a winning vision.
The lefty tough-love method is to provide hugs, time outs for terrorists, and counseling for insurgents not from Iraq.
We didn't say anything about coddling; you did.
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#374524 - 06/28/05 05:44 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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What do you propose (_jack_)? Softy? Obfuscates? Nope and nope. Lefty? No I am on average a middler as I have left and right leaning philosophies. You (_!_) neocons think if someone disagrees with your philosophies they are a commie and soft.
Also when did I suggest other than war? I just see your plan working as well as you seem think it will (or as Bushie and Rummie do). No no, my friend who just looked up the definition, I mean that we need to do more to work with more people while we a sacrificing our bravest.
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#374525 - 06/28/05 05:50 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
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Quote:
I think the logical import of my comment suggested we need to do more than kill them like vermin... which is what you suggest.
Why are you saying that I want to coddle these people?
I don't know what the right answer is, only god ( Sic ) does , but I'm sure it entails more than killing them off and waiting them out because they will eventually subside.
Would anybody doubt that someone who questions war with savage terrorists by saying, "We need to do more than killing 'them' like vermin", is obvioussly referencing the use of the term "holistic" to mean looking at the whole or interdependence of other more friendly measures other than war.
Actually, the other Anon poster never excluded war as a solution. A smart warrior is not happy standing in a vermin swarm killing them off piece-meal. A smart warrior studies the 'interdependence', the environment, sources and influences, then figures out how to use that information to take the fight back to the enemy in a way that disrupts their ability to respond, like an OODA loop. Holistic doesn't mean 'soft' or 'lefty'.
I am, however, beginning to suspect that you harbor certain Rambo fantasies that involve sweat, muscles, headbands, and attempting to fire an M-60 one handed. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
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#374526 - 06/28/05 05:55 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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You're okay by me AML. Avalon? I am even thinking you might be an eagles fan too. Anyway I agree that the other anon must have first blood delusions. psst. somebody tell him those things are just movies.
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#374527 - 06/28/05 05:59 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
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You're okay by me AML. Avalon? I am even thinking you might be an eagles fan too. Anyway I agree that the other anon must have first blood delusions. psst. somebody tell him those things are just movies.
No, Longport.
Actually, I'd rather take him to a range and let him fire an M-60 one-handed. Of course, I'd have a chiropractor standing by...
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#374528 - 06/28/05 06:03 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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we need to do more than kill them like vermin
Wow, I actually agree with this liberal (oops, sorry - I mean "moderate") anon...
My suggestions for what more we should do in addition to killing them like vermin:
1. dress in pink panties
2. hand over to Israelis
3. wrap in pig flesh before burying
Feel free to add your own.
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#374529 - 06/28/05 06:06 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Wow, good commentary Jokerman. You really stuck it to me. I think your pickup truck needs some more nascar decals.
Hand over to Israeli's? I think you'd actually like that idea. They WOULD turn Iraq into a parking lot.
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#374530 - 06/28/05 06:28 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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Wow, good commentary Jokerman. You really stuck it to me. I think your pickup truck needs some more nascar decals.
Hand over to Israeli's? I think you'd actually like that idea. They WOULD turn Iraq into a parking lot.
I had "3" stickers on my BMW, and I agree with Jokerman.
I say making it into a parking lot, or a solid sheet of glass would go a long way towards quieting things down over there.
_________________________
Giddy up.
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#374531 - 06/28/05 06:32 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
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...I say making it into a parking lot, or a solid sheet of glass would go a long way towards quieting things down over there.
While the Tamerlane approach has a certain dramatic appeal, it actually creates more problems than it solves.
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#374532 - 06/28/05 06:35 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Boy, that seems like a well-thought-out solution.
I also like the BMW comment. Are we going to pull out our portfolios next or just our shlongs? Actually, you don't have to, I know why you would make a BMW comment like that in the first place.
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#374533 - 06/28/05 06:37 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Wow, good commentary Jokerman. You really stuck it to me. I think your pickup truck needs some more nascar decals.
Does anyone have a pair of pliers? I need to pull that arrow from my heart...oh, the agony of being attacked by chickenon!!!
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Hand over to Israeli's? I think you'd actually like that idea. They WOULD turn Iraq into a parking lot.
Hmm, posting your anti-Semitic views from work? Sounds like a losing strategy to me...
I'm sure the Israelis have no desire - nor would I be in favor of allowing them - to turn Iraq, full of innocents, into a parking lot. What they do with any terrorists, however, concerns me not a bit.
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#374534 - 06/28/05 06:38 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Since when does BMW make a pickup truck?
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#374535 - 06/28/05 06:47 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Jokerman, what was anti-semetic about my comments? And since when does anybody want anything other than an end to terrorism? I still want to know what you were getting at by your comment Mr Dark Shadowy World? Pink panties, etc.
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#374536 - 06/28/05 06:47 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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Boy, that seems like a well-thought-out solution.
I also like the BMW comment. Are we going to pull out our portfolios next or just our shlongs? Actually, you don't have to, I know why you would make a BMW comment like that in the first place.
What a character you are. I have no need to exaggerate anything, I just referred to my old BMW as a rebuttal to your continued stereotyping of NASCAR fans. Actually, I haven't put the stickers on my new Mercedes yet... 
Anyway, I was just being a smart@ss much like yourself. And you were 1/2 right above, definitely arrogant.....
_________________________
Giddy up.
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#374537 - 06/28/05 06:51 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Anonymous
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Right right, mark. That combover doesn't fool anybody either.
My issue with nascar fans is that they are a bunch of sheep. You choose to side with them, then I will group you with them. If the shoe (or toupe) fits, wear it.
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#374538 - 06/28/05 06:57 PM
Re: U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Jokerman, what was anti-semetic about my comments?
I don't know, maybe your characterization of the one country in the region that has been a democracy over the last 60 years as bloodthirsty.
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And since when does anybody want anything other than an end to terrorism?
Probably since about forever. You think there is no one who wants terrorism to continue? Naive...
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I still want to know what you were getting at by your comment Mr Dark Shadowy World? Pink panties, etc.
Which comment? My suggestions about what to do to terrorists (in addition to killing them)? I don't know what there is for you to not understand.
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