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#376894 - 06/23/05 09:43 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,300
back to my roots
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I think it is only a matter of time before discrimination suits are filed...
Sounds a little like the situation in Zimbabwe...
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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
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#376895 - 06/23/05 09:44 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The only problem is that the houses around here that need to be bulldozed are not exactly good for a mall.
So will they knock down the nice houses?
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#376896 - 06/23/05 09:56 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Gold Star
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 470
In a location
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Hmmm, wonder if this will help Wal-mart to build one more store somewhere...
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#376898 - 06/23/05 10:02 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
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Quote:
The only problem is that the houses around here that need to be bulldozed are not exactly good for a mall.
So will they knock down the nice houses?
In the Conn. case they'll knock down an entire development, a small one, but all the houses. Not so much for the building space, per se, but for the access roads to the new development. Almost a literal case of paving Paradise to put up a parking lot.
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#376899 - 06/23/05 10:04 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,532
Bloomington, IN
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This was show cased a few months ago on either 60 Minutes 20/20 or one of those show, I don't remember which. The houses shown were not dilapidated. They were all well maintained mid-range homes that I remember seeing.
Unfortunately with the liberal councils we have in our area, I can see them trying to do this with a couple of older, but again well maintained, neighborhoods since they have legal decision to fall back on.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.
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#376900 - 06/23/05 10:10 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,300
back to my roots
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Just depressing. I look at some of the more run-down neighborhoods in my city. Even if the city were to pay the residents market-value, where would these people go? That measly amount of money is not going to buy them anything anywhere else. The city developers will gain the most while the poor will lose. And, of course, it is many of these large developers who contribute to local officials election campaigns. This whole decision is really unbelievable. Never in a million years did I think we would descend into a socialist state of affairs like this...
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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
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#376901 - 06/23/05 10:23 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
Never in a million years did I think we would descend into a socialist state of affairs like this...
Actually, this is more fascist than socialist. But, yes, the ruling is simply awful.
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#376902 - 06/23/05 10:26 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,300
back to my roots
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Yes, I suppose you are right. Fascism is a much better word to describe this outrage.
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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
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#376904 - 06/23/05 11:21 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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Quote:
Unfortunately with the liberal councils we have in our area, I can see them trying to do this with a couple of older, but again well maintained, neighborhoods since they have legal decision to fall back on.
Sorry to disagree Dan, but we have similar issues with city councils in Phoenix metro area and I don't think anyone would categorize Arizona as liberal. These issues cross party lines, especially at the local level.
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#376906 - 06/24/05 01:13 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 932
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Well I'll tell you that this has me very concerned. I live in a trendy city and I live in the downtown. Currently they are building a retail/hotel/condo development right behind my house. If this development is successfull I fear that they'll want my house (actually the street) to expand that development. This would be a shame since our homes were built about 100 years ago and although not historic, are quite unique. I have an arts and crafts house, across the street is a Sears kit house, a victorian cottage and other really neat houses.
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#376907 - 06/24/05 01:26 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,184
All over the map.
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When I was in 4th grade, one of my friends had to move so the city could tear down her house to make way for a new freeway. There where 7 kids in that family, no father in the picture, and a mother who had to find a new house for them all. It was very sad.  I couldn't believe it then, and can't believe it now.
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#376908 - 06/24/05 02:07 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,532
Bloomington, IN
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I didn't mean to turn this into a liberal vs. conservative discussion.
Straw and Bonnie - you are not familiar with our city and county councils. They do as they want, yet because of the student population they keep getting re-elected because they cater to the students.
If our city and county council thought they could benefit from such an action, I'd bet my last dollar they would try.
Again, I did not mean to pit liberal against conservative - I was just speaking (and categorizing our councils) on how I have seen them work over the years.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.
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#376910 - 06/24/05 02:59 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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I would like to amend my original opinion. While I am still opposed to the outcome, that is based on the current philosophical stance of the Court that the states must comply with the bill of rights (this doctrine comes from the 14th amendment and we have discussed it before). An originalist interpretation of the Constitution should allow the states to set whatever limits they wish on the taking power of their governments. However, since current jurisprudence requires the states to do all kinds of other things, there is no doubt that this decision is a gross misapplication of the takings clause.
Just a little clarification, lest someone accuse me of being inconsistent when compared to prior discussions.
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#376911 - 06/24/05 03:14 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,726
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This is possibly the worst S.C. decision EVER! I always joked with my husband when they started making people wear seatbelts to get federal highway money our liberties took a backseat to political ambition. Once that liberty was given up, they would want more, like telling you what you can and cannot do in your car (cell phone usage, for instance) and that would escalate to your home. With this decision, no one owns their home anymore. Now, the already rich developers can get richer at the private landowners' expense. Rest assured none of the properties set for razing belong to political figures or S.C. members. I honestly believe, for the first time in my life, the S.C. was bought off by money-hungry developers. 
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#376912 - 06/24/05 03:16 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Many of the middle class have long fled our cities, leaving behind poorer renters who don't pay taxes and who don't have a vested interest in growing and maintaining our communities. For this reason our governments have to be more creative in looking for challenges and ways to compete. One way is through developing property to its highest and best use.
In the New London, CT case, many of the older Victorian homes dated from the mid to late 1800s, and yes they were well kept, but they were also fronting Long Island Sound at the mouth of the Thames River (in other words, OCEANFRONT). Waterfront property values are much different today than they were 60-80 years ago, and this city was no doubt trying to use this land for its highest and best use. The city is buying the individual homes at fair market value and turning around and selling the waterfront land to Marriott, making $12 million in the sale to go to the city. Most moderates like me believe that our cities and governments know what's best for the citizens. In New York City the government will have to take homes to build a west side stadium, and in Washington, DC over 50 homes will have to be taken if a new stadium is built for the Nationals. But we must trust our government to know best.
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#376913 - 06/24/05 03:36 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,373
Austin, TX
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This is a flippin' farce. So, a homeowner can tough it out for years in a bad neighborhood, and just when things are turning around and the area starts gentrifying and the money begins to flow in, the city can say, "Cool, one of our politically connected buddies now wants to develop a big box store that will shut down in three years, so send in the bulldozers!" It's nothing more than a triumph of the elite over the masses.
If I thought that the local governments genuinely had nothing but the best interests of the greatest number of people at heart, I might be more at peace with this decision. But I've seen how quickly the resident power brokers will take advantage of any regulation. Case in point: in Houston, the council passed a resolution requiring that X% of contracts for building stadiums go to minority and women-owned businesses. Half the council and their cohorts then immediately went into partnerships with prominent local minority leaders to form sub-contracting companies that were minority-owned only in the vaguest possible sense on paper. I can see the same thing happening: Campaign Contributer Bob wants to knock down a row of houses to build a Starbucks, so Councilwoman Juanita will immediately roll over.
I just don't see how this won't be abused almost immediately and regularly. If they're gonna insist on this, there should at least be a law saying that if eminent domain is exercised merely for the sake of commercial development, then the builders have to pay the property owners FIVE times the market price.
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#376914 - 06/24/05 03:47 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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Quote:
Many of the middle class have long fled our cities, leaving behind poorer renters who don't pay taxes and who don't have a vested interest in growing and maintaining our communities. For this reason our governments have to be more creative in looking for challenges and ways to compete. One way is through developing property to its highest and best use.
In the New London, CT case, many of the older Victorian homes dated from the mid to late 1800s, and yes they were well kept, but they were also fronting Long Island Sound at the mouth of the Thames River (in other words, OCEANFRONT). Waterfront property values are much different today than they were 60-80 years ago, and this city was no doubt trying to use this land for its highest and best use. The city is buying the individual homes at fair market value and turning around and selling the waterfront land to Marriott, making $12 million in the sale to go to the city. Most moderates like me believe that our cities and governments know what's best for the citizens. In New York City the government will have to take homes to build a west side stadium, and in Washington, DC over 50 homes will have to be taken if a new stadium is built for the Nationals. But we must trust our government to know best.
This is sarcasm, right? I mean, seriously, you're just playing us right? Because if you are not, you must immediately leave the US and head for Canada or some other country.
Now. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
We will ship you your belongings.
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#376915 - 06/24/05 03:50 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,300
back to my roots
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Now, now. The anon has a right to his opinion as well. He is definitely going to find himself in the minority on this, but he has a right to his opinion. (At least we still have that right in this country.)
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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. - Carl Sagan
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#376916 - 06/24/05 03:53 PM
Re: I can bulldoze your house for a shopping mall!
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I am blown away by this decision!! Having just purchased a property in the historic district of a city, I would be furious if someone came in abitrarily and decided my property had to go.
Property is one of the few true freedoms in America. The only reason I've bought property is because of the freedom, privacy, security and peace of mind it offers. To know that the governement can take my property and hand it over to some rich fat cat really annoys me!!
I mean, who determines what is "blight" and what isn't? This is an instance where the Supreme Court got it wrong, plain and simple. I don't know about the rest of you, but my senators and representatives are getting letters from me.
A shocking verdict! Where is this country going?
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