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#384868 - 07/13/05 05:29 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

That's the "hair" that Jokerman is splitting. But, he's too obstinate to admit it.

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#384869 - 07/13/05 05:31 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
X Offline
Power Poster
X
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,332
WOOHOO
Many thousands of people work for the CIA and most of them are not covert agents. There's no way that all the other millions of people in the Washington area could not mention that some of the non-covert employees work for the CIA. That would be an unreasonable and unenforceable expectation. It's not illegal to mention that a person works for the CIA as long as that person is not a covert agent. That's a perfectly sound and reasonable defense. There's no scandal here, just an attempt by Waxman, Dean, Moveon, etc, to fabricate a scandal.
By the way, the standard for what constitutes a scandal was raised so high by Bill Clinton that none of Bush's people will ever participate in a true scandal in the eyes of the public.

First of all, Karl Rove did NOT mention anyone's name.

Second, Valerie Plame was NOT some undercover, covert, operative. She was a paper pusher who arranged her husbands trip to Niger. The White House did NOT arrange the trip, which is the point Karl Rove was trying to make.

Third, if anyone blew her cover, it was Ms. Plame herself, who had a photograph of her and hubby published in Vanity Fair magazine.

This whole thing is so ridiculous, perhaps Rove thought it up just to make the democRats and liberals look even dumber than they currently are. If that is the case, I find it hard to believe that the liberals and the democRats took the bait, and have fallen into the trap.

Karl Rove to the liberals: GOTCHA AGAIN!!!

On the other hand, perhaps Rove did not deliberately talk to Cooper about "Wilson's wife" just to make the Democrats look dumb. But, the Vanity Fair article is very telling. Covert CIA agents make sure they do not get written up in magazine articles, so Wilson and Plame's starring role in Vanity Fair is hardly the behavior of a covert agent. Rove really doesn't have to make any special efforts to make the Democrats look dumb--the Dems do that every day just by being themselves. If they weren't so destructive to our national security, the DemocRATs would really be a hilarious group.

By the way, why is it that virtually all anons are liberals? Why not sign up and show your true colors or perhaps more appropriately, sign back in and show your true colors.

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#384870 - 07/13/05 05:35 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

How is neocon anti-semitic?

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#384871 - 07/13/05 05:36 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

There are some very annoying neocon anons too.

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#384872 - 07/13/05 05:37 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

...President Bush should live up to his work...


Listen to yourself, do you really expect a politician to live up to his word?? (This is not intended to be a blow against GWB, just politicians in general)




I am in TOTAL agreement with you. My post is intended to show just how hypocritical the right can be. If the shoe was on the other foot (i.e. democratic president), the outcry would be deafening.




shoes have been on the other foot, yet the neodems stood by billy boy while he blatantly lied to the country, chalk that up to the hypocritical left

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#384873 - 07/13/05 05:37 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Not me!

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#384874 - 07/13/05 05:38 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

So, your argument is that two wrongs DO make a right!? What an idiot.

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#384875 - 07/13/05 05:40 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

no, but two negatives do make a positive

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#384876 - 07/13/05 05:41 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Randomname:
Quote:

I've read that technically, he didn't release her identity by name--he just referred to her as "Wilson's wife".




Anon:
Quote:

That's the "hair" that Jokerman is splitting. But, he's too obstinate to admit it.




Jokerman (before either of the previous posts):
Quote:

And did Rove leak her name?

But that's not the real issue (or it shouldn't be). The real issue should be intent.




Again, I don't know how I can be more clear - it doesn't matter to me whether he used her name or not. What's important is whether Rove was shopping a story to punish Wilson, or correcting misinformation that Wilson had shopped. Anon, do you have evidence to support the conclusion that he was pushing a story to punish Wilson?

Answer that, anon, and quit mischaracterizing my argument.

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#384877 - 07/13/05 05:41 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Neodems? What's that? If I am a moderate that is not far right, does that make me a neodem? I am a neodem that voted for Specter. I am a neodem that didn't vote for gore.
Also Billy Boy led our country to prosperity and he didn't send us to a liar's war. I love how the criticisms of Clinton are how he philandered. Oops, you got him.

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#384878 - 07/13/05 05:44 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

and he didn't send us to a liar's war. I love how the criticisms of Clinton are how he philandered. Oops, you got him.




yet he gutted intelligence agencies and ignored information that led to 911, what a hero

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#384879 - 07/13/05 05:45 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Just so you know Jokerman, you will know the "hateful angry commie anon" when you see me. I personally don't know much at all about the whole fiasco. My only comment about this on the thread has been if Rove has done an injustice to MY country I want you to support taking him down. Why don't you make some sort of comment for me to reflect how Rove could be involved so you can catch me up to speed. I will then go back and read the rest of your closing argument on Rove's behalf and make up my own opinion. Thanks.

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#384880 - 07/13/05 05:49 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Oh, and are you still pissed that you didn't get into any good schools and you had to try way too hard while you were there?

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#384881 - 07/13/05 05:50 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Go and find out what was cut and what was given more funding in the intelligence arena during Clinton's term and get back to me.

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#384882 - 07/13/05 05:51 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

How is neocon anti-semitic?




The term "neoconservative" itself is not. But the use of it to refer to a cabal of war-mongering Jews is, as I have explained before (start reading at post 257309).

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#384883 - 07/13/05 05:56 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Then you are just putting words in my mouth. I am refering to ultra-rightwing my-way-or-the-highway-know-it-alls. There's nothing anti-semitic about me. If people in any religion are so hard up that they can't see all sides of an issue that is a comment on the analytical abilites, not on whatever religion they are. (_dumb_)

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#384884 - 07/13/05 05:58 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Just so you know Jokerman, you will know the "hateful angry commie anon" when you see me.




Pardon? I don't recall ever calling a poster a commie. But if that's how you want to describe yourself, how will I know you?

Quote:

I personally don't know much at all about the whole fiasco.




Then, by all means, share your opinion.

Quote:

My only comment about this on the thread has been if Rove has done an injustice to MY country I want you to support taking him down.




(Emphasis mine.) I will. And if there is no evidence that he has done an injustice, I expect that you will call for an end to this media feeding frenzy, correct?

Quote:

Why don't you make some sort of comment for me to reflect how Rove could be involved so you can catch me up to speed.




I'm not sure what you mean. If you are looking for an explanation of what Rove could have done that I would find inappropriate, read what I've said - if he was trying to punish Wilson by blowing his wife's cover, I'd agree that he was doing wrong.

Quote:

I will then go back and read the rest of your closing argument on Rove's behalf and make up my own opinion. Thanks.




Feel free to read my posts, or anyone else's. If you have questions about my take on all this, just let me know.

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#384885 - 07/13/05 05:59 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Oh, and are you still pissed that you didn't get into any good schools and you had to try way too hard while you were there?




Obviously, someone who would post this is the cream of the crop. A real blue-blooded aristocrat. True class.

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#384886 - 07/13/05 06:00 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Wow, magnanimity from Jokerman. I don't know what to say. Thanks I guess.

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#384887 - 07/13/05 06:01 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Oh, and are you still pissed that you didn't get into any good schools and you had to try way too hard while you were there?




oh yeah, i bet i gots into a gooder school than you!

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#384888 - 07/13/05 06:03 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Then you are just putting words in my mouth.




No, I'm not. You are the one who chose to refer to "neocons" (a term that is known to refer to Jewish individuals) as warmongers. Perhaps you did not know the origins of the term. If that is the case, I would suggest you not use it. But I am not putting words in your mouth by pointing out that you are parroting anti-semitic terms that you have heard elsewhere.

Quote:

(_dumb_)




Grow up.

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#384889 - 07/13/05 06:06 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Wow, magnanimity from Jokerman. I don't know what to say. Thanks I guess.




I've always been magnanimous. I am opinionated, but I have no objection to friendly discussions with anyone who isn't being hateful.

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#384890 - 07/13/05 06:08 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Creditcop Offline
Diamond Poster
Creditcop
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,685
Indiana
Quote:

I say give Karl Rove a medal, even if Bush has to fire him.

Why? Because Valerie Plame should have been outed by somebody. And if nobody else had the cojones to do it, I'm glad Rove did — if he did do it, and he still says he didn't.

Why should she have been outed? Well despite her husband's repeated denials, even in the face of a pile of evidence and conclusions from a Senate investigation, it appears all evidence points to Joe Wilson's wife, spy Valerie Plame, as the one who recommended him for the job of going to Niger to discover is Saddam was trying to buy nuke bomb materials.

Why is this important? Because Wilson was opposed to the war in Iraq, opposed to Bush policy, and pointedly and loudly said so.

Consequently, it was of some interest how he got chosen for this sensitive job which people at the time might have thought would be a fulcrum point for a decision about the war.

You wouldn't send a peacenik to see if we should go to war, if we need to go to war, now would you?

That's exactly what happened, and as they say in the news biz: Inquiring minds wanted to know, "How the heck did this happen?"

Well, turns out the wife did it.

She touted husband Joe, her CIA bosses bit, and off Wilson went to completely knock down any notion Saddam wanted Niger's nuke bomb making stuff, which is called yellow cake.

Problem is, the report of the Select Committee on Intelligence says the information showed no such thing. That, in fact, it was still a bit of a mystery and Saddam could well have been trying to buy the nuke bomb material.

So why should Rove get a medal?

Let's just assume that spy Valerie Plame knew her husband's attitudes about the war in Iraq and George W. Bush's policies. Sending him off to Niger could be regarded as an attempt to influence national policies.

Where I come from, we want to know who that is. We do not want secret spymasters pulling the puppet strings in the background. That is something that should be out in the open and the person doing it should own up to it.

Rove should get a medal — if he did what he says he didn't.




This is from John Gibson at the Fox News Network. It was on his show last night and is posted on the website. Shame on you for cutting and pasting without giving proper credit. Call out the copywrite police.

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#384891 - 07/13/05 06:22 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
RandomName Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,373
Austin, TX
I am not certain that the term "neo-con" has a specific anti-Semitic context. I've seen it used in plenty of publications to simply describe a group of people hewing to a particular political philosophy. Some of them happen to be Jewish, but so what? (Probably more of them happen to be evangelical Christians.) I haven't ever seen it deployed in some fashion meant to specifically denigrate Jews.

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#384892 - 07/13/05 06:24 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Thank you random name.

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