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#384918 - 07/13/05 08:28 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Blade Scrapper Offline
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Blade Scrapper
Joined: Aug 2004
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Outside A Garage
or vice versa
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#384919 - 07/13/05 08:30 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

The thing is, it's not vice-versa. Do you find the reality of the matter insulting to your "team"?

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#384920 - 07/13/05 08:51 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Anon, you are blind. It is inconceivable to you that the mainstream media is biased, but a known fact that Fox News is.

My opinion is that most of the Fox News operation is, on balance, slightly to the right, while the mainstream media is slightly to the left.

Anon will find my opinion outlandish, I'm sure, but I think it's where most Americans would place these outlets.

When it comes down to it, much of bias is not in how stories are covered (though some is, to be sure), but rather in what is covered. Example: Kitty Kelley gets hours on the Today show for her sleazy book about the Bushes. Some guy writes a similarly poor-sourced book about Hillary Clinton and is frozen out.

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#384921 - 07/13/05 08:54 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

can it be that maybe those news sources don't have a liberal slant and the one that does does so to scare people to make them watch?




No.


Quote:

there is nothing unfair about reporting the news.




Correct, but there can be bias in picking out stories to report or not report, there can be editorializing in news reports, there can be bias in who is interviewed, there can be bias in experts consulted, there can be bias in which memos to believe are not ficticious....

Quote:

i don't watch any of it so i feel i can be a relatively unbiased onlooker.




If you have no news source, all you can be is an onlooker. You can't comment on content or bias of any media though because you'd have no knowledge.

Quote:

i am a moderate




A moderate. Maybe. But even Howard Dean thinks he is a moderate.

Quote:

and i can see the bias in some and the newsmaking on others




You are amazing, you don't watch any of it, but you can see bias in some and newmaking in others!

Quote:

just because the networks and cnn don't put a spin on things doesn't mean that they are advocating a different view than fox




WAIT! Hold the presses that is news to everyone. Hey everyone!!! CNN AND CBS AND NBC AND ABC DON"T SPIN THE NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

fox...has a decided bias.




What are you talking bout Willis!? I thought you did not watch.


Quote:

in other words, the theme is the same in this context as it is in many other threads: those who aren't far-right are far-left.




Uh, no.

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#384922 - 07/13/05 08:57 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

can i observe it from time to time and not be a watcher looking for juicy tidbits?
Uh, no right back at you. CC called and said you still had some credits to make up.

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#384923 - 07/13/05 09:01 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

can i observe it from time to time and not be a watcher looking for juicy tidbits?




NO, watching bits and pieces will not give the information needed to make an informed decision about anything. Over the years, I have watched all the majors, CNN, Fox, BBC, at length. Long enough for me to tell that all but Fox is slanted to the left and Fox is slanted to the right. Fox is definitely no more slanted to the right than any of these are slanted to the left.

Shows you what you know, I already made up my credits.

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#384924 - 07/13/05 09:03 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

good enough. i will continue to get my news from yahoo.

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#384925 - 07/13/05 09:10 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Youth is not a period of time. It is a state of mind, a result of the will, a quality of the imagination, a victory of courage over timidity, of the taste of adventure over the love of comfort. A man does not grow old because he has lived a certain number of years; he grows old when he deserts his ideal. The years may wrinkle his skin, but deserting his ideal wrinkles his soul. Preoccupations, fears, doubts and despair are the dust before death. You will remain young as long as you are open to what is beautiful, good and great; receptive to the messages of other men and women, of nature and of God. If one day you should become bitter, pessimistic and gnawed by despair, may God have mercy on your old man's soul.

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#384926 - 07/13/05 09:11 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

good enough. i will continue to get my news from yahoo.




That is as good a source as any, but beware of any news they post from Reuters. Reuters is a notoriously poor news source.

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#384927 - 07/13/05 09:14 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

i know i have posted the same thing and i think you probably have responded in the same way. honestly, i read alot of history and modern historical foction to develop a working knowledge of mankind and issues amongst men. more of a holistic approach to viewing the world. i get my updates on fellow man from yahoo and fit that into my view and let it mold itself.

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#384928 - 07/13/05 09:21 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

modern historical foction




who writes this? the fockers?

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#384929 - 07/14/05 01:29 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

I get all my news from the Daily Show.

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#384930 - 07/14/05 01:36 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
DeeQ Offline
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DeeQ
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Posts: 40,763
Turnpike Exit 10
Quote:

I get all my news from the Daily Show.




Probably more honest than any of the networks... and amusing as well.
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#384931 - 07/14/05 02:54 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

modern historical fiction: clancy, et al.

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#384932 - 07/14/05 04:27 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Creditcop Offline
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,685
Indiana
Back to the topic.

Today, even one of the persons who wrote the law about outing CIA agents said that Rove did not violate the law and that Plume would not be covered by the law as she returned from overseas in 1996 and has not been assigned overseas since then. Even Joe Wilson states that they have been in Washington since 1996. The law covers for 5 years from the last assignment, which was 1996. Also, she has not been an operative since 1996. She works a desk job in Washington DC and goes to work at the CIA building in full public view.

Also, the special prosecutor has said that Rove is not a target of the investigation.

IMHO, this is nothing but a political witchunt. The dems want the scalp of the man who has helped scalp them in the last two presidential elections.

Let's move on, there are more important issues facing this country.

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#384933 - 07/14/05 04:32 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Back to the topic.

Today, even one of the persons who wrote the law about outing CIA agents said that Rove did not violate the law and that Plume would not be covered by the law as she returned from overseas in 1996 and has not been assigned overseas since then. Even Joe Wilson states that they have been in Washington since 1996. The law covers for 5 years from the last assignment, which was 1996. Also, she has not been an operative since 1996. She works a desk job in Washington DC and goes to work at the CIA building in full public view.

Also, the special prosecutor has said that Rove is not a target of the investigation.

IMHO, this is nothing but a political witchunt. The dems want the scalp of the man who has helped scalp them in the last two presidential elections.

Let's move on, there are more important issues facing this country.



If that's true, even though I truly dislike him, let's move on. My biggest gripe in politics is we/they are so much more caught up in the politics of it, that we/they lose sight of getting anything accomplished.

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#384934 - 07/14/05 05:22 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Back to the topic.

Today, even one of the persons who wrote the law about outing CIA agents said that Rove did not violate the law and that Plume would not be covered by the law as she returned from overseas in 1996 and has not been assigned overseas since then. Even Joe Wilson states that they have been in Washington since 1996. The law covers for 5 years from the last assignment, which was 1996. Also, she has not been an operative since 1996. She works a desk job in Washington DC and goes to work at the CIA building in full public view.

Also, the special prosecutor has said that Rove is not a target of the investigation.

IMHO, this is nothing but a political witchunt. The dems want the scalp of the man who has helped scalp them in the last two presidential elections.

Let's move on, there are more important issues facing this country.




You wanna cite your source?

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#384935 - 07/14/05 05:45 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Back to the topic.

Today, even one of the persons who wrote the law about outing CIA agents said that Rove did not violate the law and that Plume would not be covered by the law as she returned from overseas in 1996 and has not been assigned overseas since then. Even Joe Wilson states that they have been in Washington since 1996. The law covers for 5 years from the last assignment, which was 1996. Also, she has not been an operative since 1996. She works a desk job in Washington DC and goes to work at the CIA building in full public view.

Also, the special prosecutor has said that Rove is not a target of the investigation.

IMHO, this is nothing but a political witchunt. The dems want the scalp of the man who has helped scalp them in the last two presidential elections.

Let's move on, there are more important issues facing this country.




You wanna cite your source?




can you make a shoe smell?

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#384936 - 07/14/05 06:14 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

she has not been an operative since 1996




If this were true don't you think the special prosecutor would have disposed of this case long ago?

Quote:

the special prosecutor has said that Rove is not a target of the investigation




This is the deceptive message coming from the administration. It's technically true he has been informed that he is not a "target" of the investigation. But he has been informed that is a "subject" of the investigation. A subject is someone who may or may not be indicted, but no decision has been made. This half-truth is being put out to make people think that the investigation is not about Rove.

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#384937 - 07/14/05 06:23 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

These are things that I would like to know. I am all for full disclosure without the politics but it seems like some are very moved to defend. Could somebody defending Rove with some cojones please illustrate the case against him. I asked for this before but to no avail.

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#384938 - 07/14/05 06:24 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
rainman Offline
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rainman
Joined: Nov 2004
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Quote:

This is the deceptive message coming from the administration. It's technically true he has been informed that he is not a "target" of the investigation. But he has been informed that is a "subject" of the investigation. A subject is someone who may or may not be indicted, but no decision has been made. This half-truth is being put out to make people think that the investigation is not about Rove.





You gotta be kidding. I have no idea where the investigation is going, but it does not appear to be going to Rove. The guy Rove talked to has said what Rove said, which appears to be perhaps ill-advised but probably not in violation of the law.

A woman that Rove did not talk to is in jail for refusing to divulge her source. Do you really think that she would be in jail if Rove were the target? Someone else was talking about Plame, and they were saying a lot more than Rove did.
Last edited by rainman; 07/14/05 06:26 PM.
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#384939 - 07/14/05 06:37 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

These are things that I would like to know. I am all for full disclosure without the politics but it seems like some are very moved to defend. Could somebody defending Rove with some cojones please illustrate the case against him. I asked for this before but to no avail.




No avail? What the heck?

I have said multiple time that if there is evidence that Rove leaked the identity (directly or implicitly) of an agent in order to punish the agent's spouse, then he should be fired. If that disclosure also broke the law, he should be prosecuted.

Right now, I don't see any evidence that this was the case. I see a fair amount of evidence that it was other reasons. But we don't see the whole picture yet.

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#384940 - 07/14/05 06:38 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Creditcop Offline
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Creditcop
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,685
Indiana
I did see this interview this morning. This is from Fox News.

But, Plame's outing may not have been illegal. According to the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act a crime has been committed only if someone knowingly reveals an undercover agent. Only one person has ever been convicted of violating the act.

In Wilson's book, "The Politics of Truth," he writes that he and his future wife both returned from overseas assignments in June 1997. Neither spouse was again stationed outside the United States, according to the book; they appear to have remained in Washington, D.C., where they married and became parents of twins.

Six years later, in July 2003, Plame's name was revealed by columnist Robert Novak (search).

The column's date is vital because the Intelligence Identities Protection Act says a "covert agent" must have been on an overseas assignment "within the last five years." The assignment also must be long-term, not a short trip or temporary post, two experts on the law say. Wilson's book makes numerous references to the couple's life in Washington over the six years up to July 2003.

Victoria Toensing, former counsel for the Senate Intelligence Committee who helped write the law protecting the identities of intelligence agents, told FOX News on Thursday that "no, in a nutshell," Rove did not commit a crime. Plame's status at the time of the revelation is key to that conclusion, she said.

"That's a very big question," Toensing said, referring to exactly what status Plame had within the CIA at the time of the alleged "leak." "When did she leave her foreign assignment?"

If it was in 1997, as noted in Wilson's book, Toensing said, "she would not have even have to come to the definition of a 'covert agent' under the law how we wrote it."

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#384941 - 07/14/05 06:42 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

These are things that I would like to know. I am all for full disclosure without the politics but it seems like some are very moved to defend. Could somebody defending Rove with some cojones please illustrate the case against him. I asked for this before but to no avail.




No avail? What the heck?

I have said multiple time that if there is evidence that Rove leaked the identity (directly or implicitly) of an agent in order to punish the agent's spouse, then he should be fired. If that disclosure also broke the law, he should be prosecuted.

Right now, I don't see any evidence that this was the case. I see a fair amount of evidence that it was other reasons. But we don't see the whole picture yet.



I'm not being flippant: did you not see or did you not wish to see, etc.?

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#384942 - 07/14/05 06:53 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Quote:

I'm not being flippant: did you not see or did you not wish to see, etc.?




The context: I like Mr. Rove's political ideology. I have no feeling for him, good or bad, on a personal level.

If he has done something wrong, I hope he is thrown out on his rear; he will have damaged the ideology. If he has not, I want the press to eat their words. Do I want to find that he has done something wrong? No. I also wish that Bill Clinton hadn't committed perjury, that Nixon hadn't lied to the nation, etc., etc., etc., because those things are bad for the country. But right now, honestly, I do not see ANY evidence that he did anything unethical.

Now, turn the question around. Do you see, or do you want to see?

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