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#384968 - 07/15/05 06:34 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Why the love affair with Karl Rove? He's a jackass of the Nth degree. He's a hatchet-man extraodinaire. Look at the "corpses" (of the political kind) left in the wake of his political campaigns. What's interesting is that for a party that is supposed to be so morally high, here's a person that has no compunction to burning someone at the stake for political gain. Not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination.

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#384969 - 07/15/05 06:47 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
10K Club
Hrothgar Geiger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
This may not fly in the WC, but I'd like to do a tiny reality check.

I'm sure there are folks on this board who've held clearances, or worked for various agencies at some point or another. So, think back...you didn't talk about other people in the same area, you didn't talk about where you'd been, heck, when I was just a wee barbarian, we didn't even talk in elevators. You didn't know what roles people played in their work, you might not even be completely certain you understood what their work was...

I've rambled a little, but where I'm going is this: it just seems really poor judgement to say something like "Joe Wilson's wife works for the CIA." For me, the discussions about whether Ms. Plame was an active agent, if she was still a covert operative, and so on, are beside the point. Karl Rove may or may not have known her true status within the agency. I've known people who were officially 'retired' and still seemed to head out for parts unknown every so often. It just seems (at the very least) incredibly poor judgement for someone with a relatively high clearance talking to someone with no clearance to discuss an agent's identity.

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#384970 - 07/15/05 07:02 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Why the love affair with Karl Rove?




I don't think anyone here has expressed a devotion to Mr. Rove. The only thing I am trying to do is defend him from what appears to be (based on the evidence we have now) rank political opportunism.

Quote:

He's a jackass of the Nth degree. He's a hatchet-man extraodinaire. Look at the "corpses" (of the political kind) left in the wake of his political campaigns. What's interesting is that for a party that is supposed to be so morally high, here's a person that has no compunction to burning someone at the stake for political gain. Not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination.




So, this post, full of accusations without any evidence, where do BOL users rate it on the irony meter?

You liberals have built up this "evil genius" theory (Karl Rove controls everything!!! Why, he probably even got himself subpeoned in this case just to get the Democrats to criticize him with words they'll have to eat!!! Just like he probably created those forged Bush National Guard memos!!!) to the extent that you can't even tell Rove from your rhetoric about him.

This man is not evil. He is hated by his opponents, certainly. But you will come to regret trying to advance your agenda through hate. Beware the dark side.

-Jokerman

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#384971 - 07/15/05 07:05 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Retired DQ Offline
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Retired DQ
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Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
I wish you bozos would stop saying "you liberals", when anyone from the extreme right could never even know what we think. Jeesh, just because you are "right" doesn't mean that you are right!
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#384972 - 07/15/05 07:09 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Blade Scrapper Offline
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Blade Scrapper
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,912
Outside A Garage
Three lefts make a right.
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...you guys, I'm going home

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#384973 - 07/15/05 07:09 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

It just seems (at the very least) incredibly poor judgement for someone with a relatively high clearance talking to someone with no clearance to discuss an agent's identity.




Reality check:

Quote:

WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.




Mrs. Wilson was driving to work at Langley, people. That is not what clandestine officers do.

-J

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#384974 - 07/15/05 07:13 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I wish you bozos would stop saying "you liberals", when anyone from the extreme right could never even know what we think.




a) you're right, referring to people as liberals is much worse than referring to them as bozos.

b) I can see with my own two eyes what you liberals have done to yourselves by getting all up in a lather over Rove. It has nothing to do with my political philosophy, this is pure, cold analysis. It's the exact same thing conservatives did in the 90's when they got more interested in nailing Clinton than they were in providing leadership on the issues.

c) I am not extreme right.

Quote:

Jeesh, just because you are "right" doesn't mean that you are right!




Clever. Truly, this is very original.

Quote:






Why?

-J

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#384975 - 07/15/05 07:19 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Hrothgar Geiger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
Declining order of certainty of Ms. Plame's actual role/responsibility within the agency:

*Ms. Plame's supervisors/managers
*Ms. Plame
*Other involved directorates
*Mr. Wilson
*Just about anyone else falls pretty far down the list.

Also, book material, interview contents, talking points, etc. probably all need to be reviewed at the agency prior to submission.

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#384976 - 07/15/05 07:32 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

*Ms. Plame's supervisors/managers




Yes or no question: If you were one of these people, and it was important to you that Ms. Plame's status as a CIA employee remain a secret, would you have her working out of CIA headquarters?

-J

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#384977 - 07/15/05 07:44 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
10K Club
Hrothgar Geiger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
It's not a 'yes or no' question. If I wanted to keep her status as a covert operative a secret, I might not mind at all if people thought she was just a civilian employee at the headquarters.

I don't think the uproar is the revelation that Ms. Plame was/is a CIA employee, it's that the revelation was that she was/is an operative.

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#384978 - 07/15/05 08:28 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

It's not a 'yes or no' question. If I wanted to keep her status as a covert operative a secret, I might not mind at all if people thought she was just a civilian employee at the headquarters.




Yeah, if I was going to have someone doing undercover WMD work, I wouldn't mind at all if people thought she was just a civilian employee at headquarters. That makes sense!

Quote:

I don't think the uproar is the revelation that Ms. Plame was/is a CIA employee, it's that the revelation was that she was/is an operative.




And we have absolutely zero evidence that Karl Rove revealed that. All Rove said is that she worked at the CIA. Information that appears to have come to him from other reporters.

The first person to reveal that she was an operative was David Corn, a journalist for the liberal magazine The Nation, as noted in the National Review piece I linked to earlier. That piece speculates (quite logically) that Corn is all but certain to have obtained that information from Joe Wilson.

-J

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#384979 - 07/15/05 08:40 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
10K Club
Hrothgar Geiger
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 10,395
Jersey Shore
Quote:

That makes sense!



As much sense as anything else in this thread anyway.

Quote:

All Rove said is that she worked at the CIA.



Well, no. What he said was that she authorized the fact-finding mission to Niger. (At least according to Cooper's information.)

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#384980 - 07/15/05 08:51 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
°X° Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,332
WOOHOO
I wish you bozos would stop saying "you liberals", when anyone from the extreme right could never even know what we think. Jeesh, just because you are "right" doesn't mean that you are right!




Not true Bumpkin - when you are right - you are right, otherwise Bumpkins would be right, but they are left.

Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements


1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice President’s Office Sent Him To Niger:

Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President’s Office. “In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. … The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.” (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, “What I Didn’t Find In Africa,” The New York Times, 7/6/03)

Joe Wilson: “[W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby’s Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ...” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: “I Don’t Know Joe Wilson. I’ve Never Met Joe Wilson. … And Joe Wilson - I Don’t [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 9/14/03)

CIA Director George Tenet: “In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA’s Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:

“[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilson’s Report. “Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassador’s findings.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

CIA Director George Tenet: “Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release, 7/11/03)

3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant

Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium “Allegations.” “I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. … This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations.” (NBC’s, “Meet The Press,” 5/2/04)

Officials Said Evidence In Wilson’s Niger Report Was “Thin” And His “Homework Was Shoddy.” (Michael Duffy, “Leaking With A Vengeance,” Time, 10/13/03)

Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador’s Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts’ Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
“For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilson’s Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. “Because [Wilson’s] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said.” (Central Intelligence Agency, “Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence,” Press Release 7/11/03)

The Butler Report Claimed That The President’s State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, “Was Well-Founded.” “We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government’s dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: ‘The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.’ was well-founded.” (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, “Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction,” 7/14/04)

4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:

Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. … Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?” Joe Wilson: “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson’s Wife Proposed Him For Trip. “Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador’s wife ‘offered up his name’ and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador’s wife says, ‘my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:

Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wife’s Suggestion. CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there?” Joe Wilson: “The CIA knew my name from a trip, and it’s in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clinton’s Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. “The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIA’s behalf … The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region …” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign

Joe Wilson: “Well, I Don’t Know. Obviously, There’s Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That It’s Because The RNC, The Republican National Committee’s Been Involved In This In A Big Way …” CNN’s Wolf Blitzer: “But They Weren’t Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report.” Wilson: “No, They Weren’t.” (CNN’s “Late Edition,” 7/18/04)

Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilson’s Report “Lent More Credibility” For Most Analysts “To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports.” “Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassador’s trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts’ assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq.” (Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq”:

Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)

Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)

Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)

Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)

Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)

Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)

Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)

Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)

Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)

Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)

Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)

Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)

Sen. John Warner (R-VA)

(Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq,” U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:

In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post “The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because ‘The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong.’” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

However, “The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report … Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003].” (Susan Schmidt, “Plame’s Input Is Cited On Niger Mission,” The Washington Post, 7/10/04)

Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: “The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have ‘Misspoken’ To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were ‘Forged.’” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:

NBC’s Katie Couric: “What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: “Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, … That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 5/3/04)

Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In “A Little Literary Flair” When Talking To Reporters. “[Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved ‘a little literary flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

Wilson’s Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wife’s CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:

“On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: ‘Wilson’s Wife Is Fair Game.’ Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A ‘Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee.’” (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, “Don’t Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson,” New York Post, 5/4/04)

“For Example, When Asked How He ‘Knew’ That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved ‘A Little Literary Flair.’” (Matthew Continetti, “‘A Little Literary Flair,’” The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)

The Boston Globe: “In Essence, Much Of Wilson’s Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth.” (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, “‘Truth’ Makes Much Of Bush Controversy,” The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)

Newsweek’s Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: “[W]ilson’s Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As ‘Rumint,’ Or Rumor Intelligence.” (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, “Indecent Exposure,” The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:

“The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service.” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)

However, “The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details …” (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, “Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community’s Prewar Assessments On Iraq,” 7/7/04)
10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan “Centrist”:
Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBC’s Jamie Gangel: “You are a Democrat?” Joe Wilson: “I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign.” (NBC’s “Today Show,” 7/14/05)

“[Wilson] Insist[s] He Remained A Centrist At Heart.” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)

Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clinton’s (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)

Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, “Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race,” The Associated Press, 10/23/03)

“[Wilson] Admits ‘It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher.’” (Scott Shane, “Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case,” The New York Times, 7/5/05)

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#384981 - 07/15/05 09:17 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

x,

Well done. I don't know Rove, don't care that much about him, and don't think he is running the country. I've been listening to both sides in the media (FOX to the right, and everyother mainstream media outlets on the left) and can see this thing is losing momentum as a political item. I think people are seeing through the Wilson b.s., and it will go away soon. Especially since the investigation won't even be complete until whats-her-name gets out of jail by revealing her source (I believe it was Wilson or Plame).

As well as your post summed up the situation and its lack of merrit, I doubt the lefties will believe the non-partisan fact finding report, or any other logical argument you put out there. I can hear the chanting already ... "Hang Rove! Hang Rove! Hang Rove!".

But I pat you on the back for a great, non-insulting post.

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#384982 - 07/15/05 09:27 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think the uproar is the revelation that Ms. Plame was/is a CIA employee, it's that the revelation was that she was/is an operative.




All Rove said is that she worked at the CIA.




Well, no. What he said was that she authorized the fact-finding mission to Niger. (At least according to Cooper's information.)




All Rove said to Cooper about her position at the CIA is that she was an employee there ("she apparently works for the CIA" is, I believe, how it was referenced in the e-mail).

Yes, he was refering to her employment there as a way to explain how he was selected, but no, he did not indicate that she was "an operative" (the real issue is whether or not she was - and whether or not Rove revealed that she was - a clandestine officer).

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#384983 - 07/15/05 09:27 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Anonymous
Unregistered

The response to the barbarian was mine.

-J

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#384984 - 07/16/05 01:16 AM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Fraudman CFCI Offline
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Fraudman CFCI
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,189
Land of Steady Habits
Classified infoirmation is classified information. There are varying classifications of classified (government speak). For example there is FOUO, classified, secret, top secret, ultra top secret, eyes only, etc.

Then there are classifications within the classifications.

I could never understand my NATO TOP Secret access as I never saw what I would have considered to be classified hard copy information. Yet what I did would fall into the classification of classified.

Now everyone understands this, right?

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#384985 - 07/18/05 02:25 AM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Classified infoirmation is classified information. There are varying classifications of classified (government speak).




If there is a prohibition on revealing ANY classified information, regardless of where one obtained it, couldn't you prosecute journalists?

Anyway, like I've said, I think the question of whether Rove has behaved ethically is far more interesting (not to mention easier for someone who is not an expert in this area of the law to understand), than the technical question of whether he violated a law.

Just my opinion.

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#384986 - 07/18/05 09:53 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
°X° Offline
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,332
WOOHOO
If the following paragraph turns out to be true, the democRats have once again chosen the wrong hill to die on:

"Apparently, Valerie Plame ceased to be a covert agent when her cover was blown years earlier. The CIA believed that Aldrich Ames (CIA agent/KGB spy/traitor) revealed her role, along with many other operatives, to the KGB before his arrest in 1994. Plame's former existence as a secret agent became little more than cocktail party chatter with which to thrill the uninitiated. Since her identity was not classified, not secret, and she had not been assigned to duty outside the US in the last five years, revealing her mundane desk job with the CIA was simply not a crime. Lots of people work for the CIA, after all."

Not only do the democRats try to fool us, but worse, BORE US TO DEATH!

With all the other things going on in the world - the fact that we have clearly just entered the first phase of the no-holds barred, undisguised onslaught of Islamic terrorism aimed at conquering the West, for example - the Dems and their press minions are obsessed by a non-issue and by their lust for political revenge. When are they going to get serious and realize that all of that is totally meaningless now, and we don't have the luxury of wasting time on it?

Maybe Karl Rove should resign . . . and spend the next few years suing the socks off of the illegitimate Objective Journalism Establishment for insinuating that he had broken the law in blowing the whistle on the Plame/Wilson fraud.

Rove should claim that every dime spent promoting the fraudulent Plame/Wilson fairy tale is an undeclared campaign contribution to the Democratic Party. In attacking Republicans while claiming to be objective and promoting laws which violate the First Amendment rights of everyone outside of their illegitimate Establishment, journalism behaves as a single, corrupt, organization. One which should be hit with a RICO lawsuit for triple damages.


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#384987 - 07/18/05 10:19 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
RandomName Offline
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Posts: 1,373
Austin, TX
I will admit that as the details pile up, it certainly seems that I was quite wrong about what Rove did. I still think he may be Pure Evil in a nice suit, but there are so many players in this saga with so many agendas that are cluttering up the channel with noise that at the end of the day it does appear that all he may have done is chat up one reporter in an effort to present the administration's side of the story. Seeing as most of whatever he may have said looks to have been publicly available to anyone with an hour or two and a PC and phonebook, it's not like he revealed the secret eleven herbs and spices for KFC or anything.

I think that to be an operative in Rove's line of business and at his level, you probably have to be ruthless and willing to do whatever you can legally get away with (or even what you think might withstand protracted litigation against you) to destroy the opposition, but it's not as if the Democratic ranks of Rove-types are filled with angels on temporary leave from Heaven, standing around aghast at his antics. He's just done a better job. Someday the left will come up with an uber-Rove, and then it'll be the turn of the conservatives to bemoan the degradation of the political game.

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#384988 - 06/13/06 04:22 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Ron said:

Quote:

My only comment about this on the thread has been if Rove has done an injustice to MY country I want you to support taking him down.




(Emphasis mine.)

I said:

Quote:

I will. And if there is no evidence that he has done an injustice, I expect that you will call for an end to this media feeding frenzy, correct?




Well, Ron, given that Rove is in the clear, we're all waiting.

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#384989 - 06/13/06 04:30 PM Black Tuesday for the Democrats
Anonymous
Unregistered

They had all their eggs in this basket.

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#384990 - 06/13/06 04:31 PM Re: Black Tuesday for the Democrats
Anonymous
Unregistered

true that anon dems lose again

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#384991 - 06/13/06 04:35 PM Re: Fire Karl Rove as You Promised
Creditcop Offline
Diamond Poster
Creditcop
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,685
Indiana
Don't hold your breath for this to happen. The dems still think that Rove is guilty despite this development. And the charge against Libby is unbeliveable. He is being charge for telling the grand jury of the wrong people he heard something from that isn't a crime after all.

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#384992 - 06/13/06 04:40 PM Re: Black Tuesday for the Democrats
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

true that anon dems lose again




This was going to be the DNC's fall elections rallying call. Now, they actually need a meaningful platform that can rally broad support. Where the heck will they get one of those?

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