ASSUME A CUSTOMER IS WANTING TO OPEN A DEPOSIT ACCOUNT IN THE NAME OF JOE DOE MD IRREVOCABLE TRUST. AN INDIVIDUAL IS THE TRUSTEE AND NOT THE BANK. WOULD WE STYLE THE ACCOUNT AS JOE DOE MD IRREVOCABLE TRUST; REQUIRE ONLY THE TRUSTEE TO SIGN THE SIGNATURE CARD; AND REQUIRE A SEPARATE TIN FOR THE TRUST? PLEASE HELP!!

I would title the account John Doe MD Irrevocable Trust, So-and-So Trustee. Yes there should be a separate TIN for the Trust.

Look to the Trust Papers. I would title the account, exactly how the trust papers show. Signer for the trust would be listed in the trust papers. Those would be the signers for your account. Keep a copy of the trust papers for your records. If there is no trust papers, IMO you have no trust.

Irrevocable trusts are often considered to be very private matters; therefore, you may not necessarily see the actual trust papers. The Trustee may provide you with a trust synopsis or statement of trust which will contain the information you need: name of trust, date of trust, trustee(s), and possibly successor trustees. You may use that document to establish the trust. And as indicated an irrevocable trust will have an EIN.

Somehow in the back of mind, I seem to remember that there is a certain section of the trust doc that you could keep without "invading the privacy of the trust". I believe that if you request the first and the last page (signature page) of the agreement as a means for validation of the trust, you should be OK. This comes to mind from my past learning, that if the bank has knowledge of all the terms of the trust, the bank could be held liable for misdeeds by the trustee such as spending funds that violate the trust agreement. You can also get an affidavit from the trustee giving certain facts needed by the bank in order to open the account. Now, don't quote me, just things I learned in my past life. Good question! Would like to know for sure for future reference.

Keep in mind that the proposed CIP regulations talk about verification of an entity though documents and use the trust instrument as an example of a document to be obtained in the case of a trust.

The IRS allows these trusts to continue to use the same TIN as the grantor. So it may not necessarily have its own TIN.

Steve,

If this were a Revocable Trust (aka Grantor or Living Trust), I would absolutely agree with you. However since the trust is irrevocable, I believe there does need to be a separe TIN since the trust will be taxed as a separate entity.

I would Title the account:
Joe Moe MD Irrev Tr (However the trust is titled)
Trustees Name, Trtee

As an Irrev Tr it should have a separate TIN (remember an Irrev Tr can exist after the grantors death, but you can not report to the IRS under a deceedants TIN). I would not take copies for the trust papers as I believe the institution can be held liable for any and all contents of the trust papers (even if you only take a copy of the first and last page)

I would instead have the signor sign a Declaration of Trust verifing the title, trustee, sucessor trustees, and TIN.

In California we can rely on a Certification of Trust due to the confidential information you find in a trust.

Re: Irrevocable. I missed that. I agree, separate TIN needed.