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#386944 - 08/06/05 12:28 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Blind Guardian Offline
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But Dumbledore has a sense of what is going on around him, I am sure he would have felt something if LV was cursing his door knocker. How long would it take to make a horcrux anyway?
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#386945 - 08/07/05 01:25 AM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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Yea, that's the point that's holding me back too. But then, Peter Pettigrew was at Hogwarts for 12 years and if DD knew, he didn't share it with anybody. Remember, McGonagle and Rosamata and Fudge discussing Peter Pettigrew's death in HP3? Would DD have known he was alive or not?

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#386946 - 08/07/05 04:02 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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i don't think dd knew about wormtail, he was suprised to find out that the marauders were all animagus(sp)... which they did under his nose...

and even though "scabbers" was at hogwarts for quite a few years... he wasn't really working for LV, he was just hanging out to see what to do next... interesting that he was a Gryffindor... not in Slytherin... i think that means he will show will show some form of bravery at some point....
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#386947 - 08/09/05 12:51 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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okay interesting thought about snape...
just finished re reading GOF for the 5 time...
at the very end, harry has just come back from LV's rising. he was taking by moody/barty crouch to his office... where he starts telling harry who he is and what he's done... he has a foe glass behind him which harry can see 3 forms approaching... these foes would be the foes of the holder/ owner... barty crouch... so the door busts open and the 3 forms are DD, McGonnagal and Snape... the books then goes on to specifically mention snape walking toward the foe glass where is face was still showing. He was a foe to barty crouch... not just pretending.... what do you guys think???
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#386948 - 08/09/05 01:21 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
NY2004 Offline
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Great observation! Definitly something to think about. Although, it wouldn't rule out Snape changing sides since then...

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#386949 - 08/09/05 01:50 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
Interesting point about the foe glass!

This is a little off track - but it's been bugging me. The thestrals. Supposedly you can only see them if you've seen death, and the first time Harry sees them is when they are headed back to school in 5. But at the end of 4 (after Harry sees Cedric die), they ride in the "horseless carriages" back to the train station?!?! Why couldn't he see them then? He'd already witnessed Cedric's death at that point. Is there some sort of magical waiting period? For that matter - his mother died right in front of him when he was one year old. Why wouldn't that have counted? If the requirement for being able to see the thestrals is to witnessed death, why wouldn't Harry have been able to see them beginning with the death of his mother?

Sorry...it's been eating at me worse than ever now while I'm rereading 5.
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#386950 - 08/09/05 03:52 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
NY2004 Offline
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I don't remember where I saw it explained, but there has to be some absorption of seeing the death. So, when Harry saw his mother die, he didn't really know what happened. When he saw Cedric's death, it took some time to absorb it. I am not sure, but maybe it's something to do with letting the shock wear off?

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#386951 - 08/09/05 04:47 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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NY is right JK discussed this on her web site i think...
also interesting thing about the scene with LV and Harry after LV comes back into a body... when he gives harry back his wand he mentions how James potter died standing straight and proud... almost as if LV was either amazed that he didn't cower or that LV admired him for that... He tells Harry he will die the same way... just thought it was odd that in a way he gives harry something he can use in comfort... that his dad died facing down LV with out fear..
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#386952 - 08/10/05 12:24 AM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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Got to go back and reread ssssssooooooooo much! You guys have given me a lot to look for.

Here's my thought on the thestrals...could it be that you had to be responsible for or cause a death? Harry really doesn't kill until the ministry, does he?

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#386953 - 08/10/05 01:59 AM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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i don't know that harry has killed anyone yet...
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#386954 - 08/10/05 12:32 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
I don't recall Harry having killed anyone, and I haven't gotten to the thestral explanation in 5 yet - but it seems to me that they just have to have witnessed death. I just still don't really get why it would take a whole summer for Cedric's death to allow him to "see," or why his mother's death didn't count.

Does anyone have a link to Rowling's explanation of this? I'd love to read it!
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#386955 - 08/10/05 09:42 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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So with all of the wanding going on at the Ministry of Magic in Book 5 he didn't kill anyone? I remember him shrinking the one and I thought he zapped at least one or two others.

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#386956 - 08/11/05 12:40 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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no, all he did was stupifey, or try and stop the DE's... he tried to crucio bella but it didn't work. I think harry was not capable of killing anyone until now... he will kill LV and if snape proves to be evil (man i hope not) i think he could kill snape.
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#386957 - 08/11/05 01:08 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
When Snape is giving Harry Occlumency lessons in book 5, he explains to H about LV being a great Legilimens and that he can almost always tell when someone is lying to him. He goes on to say that only a very good Occlumens could possibly withstand LV's powers. In another part of the book, Lupin tells Harry that even though they may not get along, Snape is a "superb Occlumens" and that it is very important for Harry to learn from him. Is this JKR's way of telling us that Snape is the spy because he's the only one who can get away with lying to LV? If that's the case, maybe he's a bit more trustworthy than we are led to believe....
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#386958 - 08/11/05 01:45 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
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Quote:

When Snape is giving Harry Occlumency lessons in book 5, he explains to H about LV being a great Legilimens and that he can almost always tell when someone is lying to him. He goes on to say that only a very good Occlumens could possibly withstand LV's powers. In another part of the book, Lupin tells Harry that even though they may not get along, Snape is a "superb Occlumens" and that it is very important for Harry to learn from him. Is this JKR's way of telling us that Snape is the spy because he's the only one who can get away with lying to LV? If that's the case, maybe he's a bit more trustworthy than we are led to believe....



This was exactly my thought as I re-read book 5.

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#386959 - 08/11/05 04:25 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Brandy Osborne Offline
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not that i don't agree, as i'm all for a good side snape. but wouldn't this same arguement mean that he could be fooling DD too?? i think snape is neither wholly evil or good, i think he is his own man and refuses to completly bow down to anyone... unlike wormtail who is just looking for the best postition... i think snape just wants to be recognized as the very powerful wizard that he is.
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#386960 - 08/11/05 09:06 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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IMO, Snape really just wants to be loved/appreciated out in the open. I'm beginning to believe that James and Serius were bullies and Snape suffered a lot at their hands. This put him in a position to become a double agent in the fight against LV. He admired Dumbledore and was willing to do what was necessary for the cause. But it continues to keep him on the outside and that hurts him deeply. I don't think he's on LV's side. He is both a superb Occlumens and a great actor!

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#386961 - 08/11/05 10:25 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
QCL Offline
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Quote:

IMO, Snape really just wants to be loved/appreciated out in the open. I'm beginning to believe that James and Serius were bullies and Snape suffered a lot at their hands. This put him in a position to become a double agent in the fight against LV. He admired Dumbledore and was willing to do what was necessary for the cause. But it continues to keep him on the outside and that hurts him deeply. I don't think he's on LV's side. He is both a superb Occlumens and a great actor!




Wait. Didn't we just watch Snape's version of the memory. I seem to remember (or am I making this up) hearing something about since they are Snape's memories we saw, it may be his "version" of them. Remember getting in touble as a kid and how it was never your fault, you didn't do anything wrong to start it . Maybe that's how Snape's memory works. Just guessing now. I'm taking book 4 with me to the hospital this weekend.

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#386962 - 08/11/05 10:43 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
bucket Offline
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No...Rowling has actually stated that the memories are unbiased and truthful...We are actually seeing what really happened.
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#386963 - 08/12/05 12:43 AM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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Right...we're seeing what really happened through the eyes of the person who's memory it is. It's their reality not an unbiased retelling.

When Serius (or was it Luppin) makes a comment about Snape in the tree, it's a jabbing, demeaning kind of remark that tells you that character remembers the incident from a totally different perspective.

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#386964 - 08/12/05 12:17 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
gone Offline
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No, Bucket is right. JK stated that the memories when viewed through the pensieve are unbiased and truthful. That is why Dumbledore used the memories to see into Voldemort's past. So he could look at all the angles.

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#386965 - 08/12/05 02:09 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
Truffle Royale Offline

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Oops, guess I missed that. Please post link to where JK wrote that. Not that I doubt either you or Bucket, I'd just like to read it too.

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#386966 - 08/12/05 02:15 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
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It was in the interview that Emerson from Mugglenet and Melissa from TLC had with JK. I can't post the link from here, but i believe it is somewhere in this thread.

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#386967 - 08/12/05 03:41 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
RR Becca Offline
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out of the frying pan...
Well - I finished rereading 5 last night, and I'd like to hear (read?) other people's thoughts on this:

When Harry reports to DD about Mr. Weasley being attacked, DD consults one of his "trinkets" from the spindly table. It puffs out green smoke that forms into a serpent, then (to DD's amazement) splits into 2 serpents. DD's reaction to this is to question the trinket, "In spirit divided?" and the smoke puffs once more then clears away. Personally, I think that is FAR too odd a statement for it to not carry some meaning. But what is DD alluding to?
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#386968 - 08/12/05 03:57 PM Re: HP6** SPOILER WARNING**
IUalum Offline
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Maybe it's foreshadowing the whole horcrux thing.
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