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#464681 - 12/02/05 05:31 PM Re: WARNING: Highly Offensive Insensitive Post
Chiquita Banana Offline
Diamond Poster
Chiquita Banana
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,044
The banana bin
I'm an agnostic and I personally don't care. But I don't want to intentionally offend anybody. So, I *try* to conduct myself in a way that is sensitive to a person's feelings. Do I always succeed? No. But I *try* to be conscious of a persons feelings because it's polite. It's how I was raised.

This whole, "This is what I believe and I don't care if someone is offended" is, well, rude. And I can't stand the "Well, the majority of people think this way so if you're offended, you're in the minority" is crap. That's totally negating someone's feelings simply because they're not your own and that you choose to hide behind numbers. That again, is rude.

Do you have the right to be rude? Sure. You have the right to say whatever you want. Should you?
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#464682 - 12/02/05 05:37 PM Re: WARNING: Highly Offensive Insensitive Post
Nanwa Offline
Power Poster
Nanwa
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,564
Clintonville, WI, USA
As a child, I always thought "Happy Holidays" was said cause it was easier to say than "Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year". It wasn't until I grew up that I learned there actually were other holidays than Christmas and New Years. I am glad I know about them now, and wish everyone a Happy Happy and Merry Merry!
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#464683 - 12/02/05 05:47 PM Re: WARNING: Highly Offensive Insensitive Post
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

I'm an agnostic and I personally don't care. But I don't want to intentionally offend anybody. So, I *try* to conduct myself in a way that is sensitive to a person's feelings. Do I always succeed? No. But I *try* to be conscious of a persons feelings because it's polite. It's how I was raised.

This whole, "This is what I believe and I don't care if someone is offended" is, well, rude. And I can't stand the "Well, the majority of people think this way so if you're offended, you're in the minority" is crap. That's totally negating someone's feelings simply because they're not your own and that you choose to hide behind numbers. That again, is rude.

Do you have the right to be rude? Sure. You have the right to say whatever you want. Should you?




I agree Chef.
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#464684 - 12/02/05 05:56 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

Quote:

Snow- Step into a non-christians shoes for just a second. It's not just a few people saying "Merry Christmas"...it's the stores, the music in the stores, the lights, the commercials on tv, it's EVERYWHERE. I mean, it's not like one "Merry Christmas" is offensive but the lack of consideration to another faith that is.

I'm sure non-Christians aren't offended for getting paid for the holiday...I mean, they have to work on their OWN holidays. So, kind of a trade off in my opinion.

I would also like to point out that I'm not jewish but an elderly friend of mine was. She told me that Hannakuh, while a holiday, wasn't as big as when she was a kid. It was a holiday but it grew in importance throughout the years because in her opinion, jewish people felt the need to have an identity around the Christmas season. She let me know that holidays, such as Passover, were much more important in their faith but had become overshadowed because of this need for identity.

So in my opinion, if people had more respect all around for people of ALL faiths or even ending this onslaught of Christmas EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE to the point of making people sick of it by Thanksgiving, then maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, to quote my grandmother, "You made your bed...now lie in it."




The reason for the season is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. If you don't believe, tough luck, you have absolutely no right to tell the majority of us there are not to express our right to free speech in saying Merry Christmas. You have no right to prevent us from practicing our religious faith.

You do, however, have the right not to celebrate the holiday. You have the right to say Happy Kwanza, Happy New Years, and happy Halloween if you so chose.

If you are offended that others practice their religion, and celebrate the birth of their Savior, think about this.... Does the KKK have the right to say Martin Luther King doesn't deserve a federal holiday and cause it to become politically incorrect to observe it?




Since Christmas is a celebration of Jesus' birth, is it ok as a non-Christian to ask that the party be called a holiday party, so I can be included in the celebration.

As a non-Christian, I cannot celebrate the birth of your savior, but I can participate in a seasonal celebration.

Is this ok to your sensibilities or is this too offensive to you Michael?

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#464685 - 12/02/05 06:08 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
Power Poster
MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
My guess is that it's too offensive. Anyone want to bet with me?
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#464686 - 12/02/05 06:22 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
doodle Offline
Platinum Poster
doodle
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 888
colorado
Straw, your first mistake is trying to be reasonable with Michael. I would advise just letting this drop.
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#464687 - 12/02/05 06:35 PM Re: WARNING: Highly Offensive Insensitive Post
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I'm an agnostic and I personally don't care. But I don't want to intentionally offend anybody. So, I *try* to conduct myself in a way that is sensitive to a person's feelings. Do I always succeed? No. But I *try* to be conscious of a persons feelings because it's polite. It's how I was raised.

This whole, "This is what I believe and I don't care if someone is offended" is, well, rude. And I can't stand the "Well, the majority of people think this way so if you're offended, you're in the minority" is crap. That's totally negating someone's feelings simply because they're not your own and that you choose to hide behind numbers. That again, is rude.

Do you have the right to be rude? Sure. You have the right to say whatever you want. Should you?




So, is saying "Merry Christmas" rude?

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#464688 - 12/02/05 06:36 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Nanwa Offline
Power Poster
Nanwa
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,564
Clintonville, WI, USA
Straw, we're having a birthday celebration, and you are invited!

I don't care what people call it. Whenever people can get together in the spirit of peace and goodwill, it's OK by me!
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Member of the National Sarcasm Society - like we need your support!

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#464689 - 12/02/05 06:41 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Thanks Nanwa

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#464690 - 12/02/05 06:42 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Bengals Fan Offline
Power Poster
Bengals Fan
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Snow- Step into a non-christians shoes for just a second. It's not just a few people saying "Merry Christmas"...it's the stores, the music in the stores, the lights, the commercials on tv, it's EVERYWHERE. I mean, it's not like one "Merry Christmas" is offensive but the lack of consideration to another faith that is.

I'm sure non-Christians aren't offended for getting paid for the holiday...I mean, they have to work on their OWN holidays. So, kind of a trade off in my opinion.

I would also like to point out that I'm not jewish but an elderly friend of mine was. She told me that Hannakuh, while a holiday, wasn't as big as when she was a kid. It was a holiday but it grew in importance throughout the years because in her opinion, jewish people felt the need to have an identity around the Christmas season. She let me know that holidays, such as Passover, were much more important in their faith but had become overshadowed because of this need for identity.

So in my opinion, if people had more respect all around for people of ALL faiths or even ending this onslaught of Christmas EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE to the point of making people sick of it by Thanksgiving, then maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion.

So, to quote my grandmother, "You made your bed...now lie in it."




The reason for the season is Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. If you don't believe, tough luck, you have absolutely no right to tell the majority of us there are not to express our right to free speech in saying Merry Christmas. You have no right to prevent us from practicing our religious faith.

You do, however, have the right not to celebrate the holiday. You have the right to say Happy Kwanza, Happy New Years, and happy Halloween if you so chose.

If you are offended that others practice their religion, and celebrate the birth of their Savior, think about this.... Does the KKK have the right to say Martin Luther King doesn't deserve a federal holiday and cause it to become politically incorrect to observe it?




Since Christmas is a celebration of Jesus' birth, is it ok as a non-Christian to ask that the party be called a holiday party, so I can be included in the celebration.

As a non-Christian, I cannot celebrate the birth of your savior, but I can participate in a seasonal celebration.

Is this ok to your sensibilities or is this too offensive to you Michael?




So you don't think it's rude to tell someone who wants to have a Christmas party that because you don't believe in Christ they have to change it to a holiday party or you will be offended? If someone saying they are throwing a Christmas party offends you, don't go. If you want to throw a Merry Sacrifice to the Sun God party, that's your right, I doubt any Christian is going to demand you rename it an Independence Day party. Better yet, do immigrants to the US have the right to demand that the Fireworks for Independence Day be called Big Sky Show Day because it's not their nation's Independence being Celebrated but they like having a holiday?

Once again, does the KKK have the right to demand that we don't have a holiday metioned giving praise to Martin Luther King, or in the near future to Rosa Parks?

Do Christians have the right to demand that Ramadan and Hanakuh not be mentioned in their presence if they have friends of other faiths? Does an Atheist get to demand that nothing be celebrated by any name? No, they do not. They have the right not to participate.

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#464691 - 12/02/05 06:42 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Since Christmas is a celebration of Jesus' birth, is it ok as a non-Christian to ask that the party be called a holiday party, so I can be included in the celebration.

As a non-Christian, I cannot celebrate the birth of your savior, but I can participate in a seasonal celebration.

Is this ok to your sensibilities or is this too offensive to you Michael?




Holiday Party? What holiday? I am not trying to be smart, but if it is called a holiday party and you don't celebrate Christmas, what holiday would the party name refer to?

A seasonal celebration? Again, I am not trying to be smart, but what is a seasonal celebration? A celebration of the arrival of winter?

If the office has a party called a Christmas Party, but that is the only mention of the word "Christ" in the whole thing, can't you participate? Again, not trying to be smart, just trying to understand.

From what I have seen, most office Christmas parties are a far cry from a celebration of Christ. If the party is not full of drunks, then it is full of gluttons. I am not judging that behavior, I am just pointing out that it is not exactly a celebration of Christ. In fact, it makes me wonder why any Christian would want the name Christ associated with them at all.

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#464692 - 12/02/05 06:45 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
Power Poster
MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Some people just don't get it.
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#464693 - 12/02/05 06:52 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Carly Girl Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,778
TEXAS
Christmas "IS" Christ! The entire holiday is about Christ. IMHO, the joy of gift giving came about when the three wise men brought gifts to the baby king in honour of his blessed birth. This holiday at our house is to do the same; celebrate his birh, just as we celebrate Good Friday and Easter, and praise God that He still lives.

Everyone has their own right to believe or not to believe, to choose or not to choose, to celebrate or not to celebrate. Life is about making your own choices. But it is amazing that 66% say NO to dissing the phrase.

Merry Christmas everyone!
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#464694 - 12/02/05 06:56 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Bengals Fan Offline
Power Poster
Bengals Fan
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Some people just don't get it.




Indeed, YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT. You think that you should be allowed to keep others from celebrating their faith, because at the mere mention of anything Christian, including of all things the word Christmas, offends you so much that it must not be allowed. Thus we should drop so simple and joyous and NON OFFENSIVE a comment as Merry Christmas. You know most people would relish a simple Merry Christmas over the normal horn honking, shoving in stores, and hustle and bustle of the Christmas season. But not you, because like you said, some people just don't get it.

You say that our saying Merry Christmas offends you so much that you couldn't possibly take part in a "Christmas Party". Do you realize how much more it offends us when you say how dare you celebrate the birth of your Savior?

Next I suppose it won't be the Easter Bunny or Easter Egg Hunts but Spring Bunny and Rotten Egg hunts for you.

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#464695 - 12/02/05 06:57 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
There is more than one holiday in December. That is what you people refuse to recognize. No one is telling you not to celebrate your holiday. People are only asking that other holidays be included in the season. This is not a hard concept to understand, but not one of you people who is screaming about Christmas has acknowledged there are other holidays at the same time of year. It's all "I'm a Christian and the rest of you can just go home and lump it because I'm the only person who has any feelings that matter."
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#464696 - 12/02/05 06:58 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Bengals Fan Offline
Power Poster
Bengals Fan
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,990
Cincinnati, OH
Quote:

Straw, your first mistake is trying to be reasonable with Michael. I would advise just letting this drop.




So, let me get this straight. It's ok to suggest that a joyous remark so simple and conventional as Merry Christmas be banned. That's "reasonable". Saying that this nation is founded on freedom of speech and freedom to express our religions and thus the idea of banning "Merry Christmas" is far more offensive is not reasonable?

Hrmn, I do not think that word (reasonable) means what you think it means.

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#464697 - 12/02/05 07:02 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
Power Poster
MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

Quote:

Some people just don't get it.




Indeed, YOU JUST DO NOT GET IT. You think that you should be allowed to keep others from celebrating their faith, because at the mere mention of anything Christian, including of all things the word Christmas, offends you so much that it must not be allowed. Thus we should drop so simple and joyous and NON OFFENSIVE a comment as Merry Christmas. You know most people would relish a simple Merry Christmas over the normal horn honking, shoving in stores, and hustle and bustle of the Christmas season. But not you, because like you said, some people just don't get it.

You say that our saying Merry Christmas offends you so much that you couldn't possibly take part in a "Christmas Party". Do you realize how much more it offends us when you say how dare you celebrate the birth of your Savior?

Next I suppose it won't be the Easter Bunny or Easter Egg Hunts but Spring Bunny and Rotten Egg hunts for you.




Michael, you are referring to someone else's posts. I happen to be a Christian. You ought to stop your whining and try reading.

I specifically said I didn't think ANYONE was offended by someone wishing someone a Merry Christmas just that it would be nice to include other holidays in the season.
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#464698 - 12/02/05 07:20 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
straw Offline
Power Poster
straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

Quote:

Straw, your first mistake is trying to be reasonable with Michael. I would advise just letting this drop.




So, let me get this straight. It's ok to suggest that a joyous remark so simple and conventional as Merry Christmas be banned. That's "reasonable". Saying that this nation is founded on freedom of speech and freedom to express our religions and thus the idea of banning "Merry Christmas" is far more offensive is not reasonable?

Hrmn, I do not think that word (reasonable) means what you think it means.




I never said it should be banned and i never said I was offended. I also cited the fact that the WH tree is called a holiday tree rather than a Christmas tree is silly nonsense.

However, you persist in preaching that your rights are being hurt.

I asked my employer to change it to a holiday party. It could be Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanza; we have employees who celebrate all those holidays.

For you, your rights are trampled.

Okay.

I guess my company can throw three (or however) many parties to celebrate different holidays, but I don't think that will help employee comraderie.

Stop looking at this as religiou infringement. Sometimes, its about including vs. excluding.

But its okay; we know which side you choose in that.

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#464699 - 12/02/05 07:23 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Amen
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#464700 - 12/02/05 07:26 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Some people just don't get it.




Your rudeness is being ignored.

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#464701 - 12/02/05 07:29 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
MichelleDawn Offline
Power Poster
MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

Quote:

Some people just don't get it.




Your rudeness is being ignored.




Funny ... that remark has been quoted twice now. What's your definition of ignored? If you are who I think you are, its probably as good as your definition of argument.
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#464702 - 12/02/05 07:29 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
straw Offline
Power Poster
straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

Quote:

Straw, your first mistake is trying to be reasonable with Michael. I would advise just letting this drop.




So, let me get this straight. It's ok to suggest that a joyous remark so simple and conventional as Merry Christmas be banned. That's "reasonable". Saying that this nation is founded on freedom of speech and freedom to express our religions and thus the idea of banning "Merry Christmas" is far more offensive is not reasonable?

Hrmn, I do not think that word (reasonable) means what you think it means.




I voted no in the poll also. Even the PC crowd doesn't say you don't have a right; the issue is whether you should or shouldn't.

My opinion is everyone should take pride in their heritage. There is no problem with it.

The salutation is your wish to others, not your celebration of your faith. WHen you say merry christmas to someone, you are wishing them a merry christmas. If you know they don't celebrate that, what message are you sending?

But, there are times when happy holidays would be better like working retail in a non-catholic neighborhood, office functions, office greeting cards, etc. to include anyone you are sending these things to.

A client may get upset if you send a Christmas card when you know they are not Christian. The card is not sent for them to acknowledge you; the card is your wish to them. I am sure you will explain that you have the right to send Christmas cards to anyone you want, and of that there is no doubt.

However, I am willing to bet your card list is short so this is probably not an issue anyway.

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#464703 - 12/02/05 07:31 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Anonymous
Unregistered

It is not about all December holidays being recognized. I don't celebrate any holiday; you've left me out. The title simply is not inclusive of my lack of belief. Call it a Winter Party or just call it a party, but I do not celebrate holidays, so I do not want it called a Holiday Party or a Kwanzaa Party or a Christmas Party or a Hanuka Party or whatever. The whole thing is incredibly insensitive.

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#464704 - 12/02/05 07:34 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Some people just don't get it.




Your rudeness is being ignored.




Funny ... that remark has been quoted twice now. What's your definition of ignored? If you are who I think you are, its probably as good as your definition of argument.




Your insults are being ignored.

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#464705 - 12/02/05 07:35 PM Re: Drop "Merry Christmas"?
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
While the birth of Christ was what Christmas was originally intended to celebrate, so much secularism has crept in that it is entirely possible to celebrate Chrsitmas without believing in Christ. What does Santa Claus, reindeer, and decorated trees have to do with Christ anyway.

Halloween may have roots back to satanic or superstitous beliefs -- that doesn't make trick-or-treaters satan worshipers

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