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#484249 - 01/17/06 05:06 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
unscientific or too empirical
I guess that pretty much covers the spectrum.
I don't get it. Together, I would take this to mean "limited persuasive impact". Do you mean the spectrum of weak support for proof of a deterrent efect?
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#484251 - 01/17/06 05:15 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Ron, I mean, the spectrum of any possible criticism of a study.
Chi, if you don't LOL at the mention of Mr. Chomsky (a defender of Pol Pot) as a foreign policy expert, then one of us is living in reality and one of us is not. I'm confident that those reading these posts can decide which of us is which.
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#484252 - 01/17/06 05:20 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
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More relevant in my comment about the empirical and unscientific was the point that one side (pro-DP studies) cannot refute the anti-DP studies. Just don't discount it for ideological reasons. I don't disregard facts or studies contrary to my positions. Like I have said time and time again, if there really was a true deterrent effect then I would ultimately support the DP.
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#484253 - 01/17/06 05:25 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Ron, it is impossible to prove or disprove a deterrent effect. That's the problem with your criticism. The only reason such "studies" are undertaken in the first place is for idealogical reasons.
Have you addressed anon's questions regarding the study that they referenced?
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#484255 - 01/17/06 05:41 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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No one has cited a study on the deterrent effect of the death penalty by Bernard Goetz, which would be the equivalent of Mr. Chomsky's bias on foreign affairs.
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#484256 - 01/17/06 06:12 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Ron, it is impossible to prove or disprove a deterrent effect. That's the problem with your criticism. The only reason such "studies" are undertaken in the first place is for idealogical reasons.
Have you addressed anon's questions regarding the study that they referenced?
I don't remember the study. Could you outline it or show me a reference so I can check it out?
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#484257 - 01/17/06 06:17 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
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I got ahead of myself. Without proof, assuming that the scientific evidence against the DP is suspect, I would err on the side of NOT killing people as a society. Why create more death? Your answer of course is justice. Then I say justice means a lot more in our society than penance for a wrong. Then the tautology goes around and around.
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#484258 - 01/17/06 07:02 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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#484259 - 01/17/06 07:04 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
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Ron,
Shemp here. Why do you always think these anons are me?
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#484260 - 01/17/06 08:26 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Diamond Poster
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,373
Austin, TX
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Quote:
Quote:
Chi, if you don't LOL at the mention of Mr. Chomsky (a defender of Pol Pot) as a foreign policy expert, then one of us is living in reality and one of us is not. I'm confident that those reading these posts can decide which of us is which.
So the political analysts you agree with are perfect, the ones you disagree with are hacks. Simple enough.
Bah, Chomsky...anyone who's on the side of Ramsey Clark and Edward Said loses all credibility with me.
But as to the issue at hand, the convict's appeal that he was too old to be executed was simply ludicruous. The grounds for his complaint only existed because he managed to spin out the process for so long. I'm just surprised he didn't smash his head against a wall repeatedly to inflict brain damage so he could claim his IQ was now too low for him to be sent to the chamber.
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#484261 - 01/17/06 09:16 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Ron,
Shemp here. Why do you always think these anons are me?
Sorry bud. The other anon told me about a book by a nobel winning economist. You had done the same.
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#484262 - 01/17/06 09:20 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
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hmmm I think he was referencing his journal article. Mine was by Milton Freidman and was a book called Capitalism and Freedom. I am pretty sure mine has nothing to do with capital punishment.
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#484263 - 01/17/06 09:24 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
hmmm I think he was referencing his journal article. Mine was by Milton Freidman and was a book called Capitalism and Freedom. I am pretty sure mine has nothing to do with capital punishment.
seriously, i am sorry. i never read the book although i still want to. the other anon said about me never responding to something about a nobel economist. i thought "hmm shemp-o said something about that, must be him". that's all. so sorry. luckily, nobody really know who shemp is anyway so i haven't defamed you too badly. 
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#484264 - 01/17/06 09:45 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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ahhh I do not care if I get defamed. At least I was famed. I am the famous Shemp. If anyone thinks its me they should just say it. Then I will be more of a myth after a while. mwhahahahhaahhahahaha
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#484265 - 01/17/06 09:48 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
ahhh I do not care if I get defamed. At least I was famed. I am the famous Shemp. If anyone thinks its me they should just say it. Then I will be more of a myth after a while. mwhahahahhaahhahahaha
well, you are famous in my book. and sorry to be attributing things to you that aren't yours. and really, if i were you, i wouldn't claim ownership of them.
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#484266 - 01/18/06 03:18 AM
Re: More bloodlust
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,349
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I even added the -o for ya Ron.
_________________________
If your tagline references disclaimers regarding the nature of political posts, then you should just hit notify.
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#484268 - 01/18/06 02:31 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Awesome. Write me back when we amend the constitution. Until then you will have to take this justification and call it revenge.
I really had no intention of posting further, but I will address your reply and then leave further debate up to the rest of you.
If the Constitution is amended then all that does is change the concept of "cruel and unusual punishment". The amendment to the Constitution may change the legality of the death penalty in our society, but that will not change my opinion favoring the death penalty.
As far as calling it revenge; as I said in the original post call it what you like but that will not change my opinion nor beliefs.
Just a question for you to address since you appear to be determined to call the DP revenge (and I really don't have a problem with that if that is how you look at it). Wouldn't any form of "punishment" in essence be a form revenge for the crime committed?
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#484269 - 01/18/06 03:01 PM
Re: More bloodlust
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Awesome. Write me back when we amend the constitution. Until then you will have to take this justification and call it revenge.
I really had no intention of posting further, but I will address your reply and then leave further debate up to the rest of you.
If the Constitution is amended then all that does is change the concept of "cruel and unusual punishment". The amendment to the Constitution may change the legality of the death penalty in our society, but that will not change my opinion favoring the death penalty.
As far as calling it revenge; as I said in the original post call it what you like but that will not change my opinion nor beliefs.
Just a question for you to address since you appear to be determined to call the DP revenge (and I really don't have a problem with that if that is how you look at it). Wouldn't any form of "punishment" in essence be a form revenge for the crime committed?
First of all, the part you didn't quote (thankfully actually because I HATE these ultra-long quotes) was what my "awesome" reply responded to. I was referring to your justification using the bible. My point was simply that you would need to focus or utilize your scripture and turn it into a secular principle like revenge. A difficult thing when analyzing constitutional issues is to not mix them or mix the basis of the constitutional argument. Your basis in the original post was support for the DP from the bible. I simply tried to relate that you would have to amend the constitution to use that type of support. Ultimately the constitutionality of the DP will turn on an interpretation of "cruel and unusual" but if you tie your support for a pro-DP interpretation of c & u to the bible, it intersects another layer of the constitution.
As far as revenge, all punishments are revenge in some sense. The real issue here is the DP and revenge killing. Only using revenge to describe it is shorthand instead of saying revenge killing over and over. I hope this helps. My point is not as much about punishment as revenge but rather should we as a society engage in revenge killing. So my shorthand was 'you favor revenge (killing)' rather than trying to justify something as a deterrent.
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I'm finally free from prison and you're still in disguse, all should go as planned... LOL... 
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