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#5202 - 10/03/01 06:18 AM Question about TILA
Roger Offline
New Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
I recently refinanced my property and have had some interesting events follow. I was contacted by the closing agent and informed that he made a mistake on my HUD1. He inadvertently recorded my existing MTG payoff by $2000 less than it should have been. This came four days after my rescission period ended. The closing agent has paid the $2000, but stated he could not afford to "eat the cost". He requested that I repay him the money. Meanwhile, I have used the cash I took out to pay off debts and have no funds remaining. What are my rights at this point? I can't cancel the MTG, my rescission period has ended. I can't imagine that the MTG company can change the Settlement Statement at this point either! I've been told that attorneys and closing agents carry Error and Omission Insurance (E&O) for this very reason.

What exactly are my rights?

I would like to do one of the following:

1) Pay the money owed by me minus any fees the closing agent charged (obviously he has not done his job and inconvenienced me as a result).

2) Cancel the MTG in its entirety.

Please let me know if I have a legal leg to stand on and, if so, how to proceed.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

BTW, I am in the state of Georgia.


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General Discussion
#5203 - 10/03/01 06:09 PM Re: Question about TILA
BankerMama Offline
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BankerMama
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,543
Hey, if you owe it, pay it. I take pride in paying what I owe.

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#5204 - 10/03/01 07:44 PM Re: Question about TILA
Brenda C Offline
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Brenda C
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9
Wilson, NC USA
I agree with bwest. Errors are made on settlement statements all the time and are subsequently corrected. Did you not verify what your loan balance was? I would have known what I owed. I doubt that your creditor will hold your closing agent liable.

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Opinions are mine, not of my employer.

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#5205 - 10/03/01 08:08 PM Re: Question about TILA
Roger Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
The payoff amount was close to what I owed. Apparently, my statement payoff amount wasn't too accurate. Not to mention, the mortgage was closed close to 30 days after my mortgage payment was due. Therefore, two months of interest had accrued.

I do plan to pay what I owe. However, due to the mistakes made I do not feel it necessary to pay for the closing fee. I am simply looking for leverage to have these fee's reimbursed. I did not have an accurate HUD1 and the errors did not come out until after the rescission period ... there is something wrong with that!


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#5206 - 10/03/01 09:17 PM Re: Question about TILA
SteveG Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 58
I also agree with bwest and Brenda C. The settlement agent probably earned its fee. It sounds like the payoff statement may not have been clear ... making the problem not one completely the settlement agent's doing. And I feel a payoff statement that has an error is subject to correction.

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#5207 - 10/03/01 09:22 PM Re: Question about TILA
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hey, obviously you were aware that there was an error. Seems you should have said something then. Everyone is given a payoff prior to closing. If the HUD1 had been overstated by $2000 bet you would have spoken up, huh? You are always given an opportunity to review the HUD1 and ask questions. Why didn't you question the possible inconsistency before you spent the dough? AND, by the way, closings DO sometimes take longer than anticipated for various reasons. Most of the time it's the fault of the parties involved, but, for goodness sakes, whatever gave you the idea that the interest would stop running? Talk to your attorney, bud, you aren't getting any sympathy here. By the way, you aren't banker, are you?

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#5208 - 10/03/01 09:53 PM Re: Question about TILA
Roger Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
I'm not looking for sympathy, just asking if someone can point out a TILA violation. The payoff statement the closing agent received was correct, he wrote down the wrong amount (his error). The interest was a bit more than $2000 so the figure did not leap out at me. I had NO IDEA that he wrote down the wrong amount.

Goodness Gloria, did you have a bad day? I'm not looking to be attacked, just trying to understand the law when it comes to a mistake made on the HUD1.

"obviously you were aware that there was an error. Seems you should have said something then."

NO, I was not aware of the error at closing, but thank you for attacking my character. Once again, the interest amount was in the neighborhood of the discrepency, therefore, I did not catch it.

"If the HUD1 had been overstated by $2000 bet you would have spoken up, huh? You are always given an opportunity to review the HUD1 and ask questions. Why didn't you question the possible inconsistency before you spent the dough?"

I would have questioned it if he had done his job correctly. You bet! Once again, everything looked fine! I looked over the figures and the payoff was the same as my latest MTG statement.

"AND, by the way, closings DO sometimes take longer than anticipated for various reasons. Most of the time it's the fault of the parties involved, but, for goodness sakes, whatever gave you the idea that the interest would stop running?"

I do understand that there are delays in closings. In this case, the closing agent made all of the errors. He didn't even send my payoff until two days after the rescission period had ended. He forgot! As for the interest, I didn't think anything of it. The payoff was a bit higher than my last payoff showed!

"By the way, you aren't banker, are you?"

I am a licensed investment rep. So, you could say that I am a banker. Also, of the actual bankers that I spoke with (actual bankers), they agree that a mistake popping up after the rescission period has ended is a problem. Most, have advised they would fight it and that I should simply refuse to pay the $2000. I, however, prefer to pay what I owe. I simply do not feel the closing agent deserves my money for his lack of service.

Now, back to my question. Can someone please explain what would constitute a TILA violation. Would the APR have to be effected by a certain percentage (.25% - in this case it would not) or would the figures have to be off by a certain percentage (in this case it would be). I'm looking for facts, thanks again for the help.

By the way, I apologize if I am coming off as rude, but attacks on my character tend to upset me.


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#5209 - 10/03/01 10:16 PM Re: Question about TILA
Roger Offline
New Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
Let me add, I would not have closed the loan had the HUD1 been accurate. I would have asked for additional funds, which I was qualified for. My preference is to have the MTG redone accurately.

Funny thing is ... I work for this company and don't care to get terribly bent out of shape. Nor am I looking to get them in trouble. As for the closing agent, that entire scenario is a complete mess. Our MTG center hired an agency to handle various aspects of the closing. They, in turn, farmed out the work to third parties. It gets confusing as to who is responsible for what.

I intend to press to have the fees reversed. If not an option, I will simply pay the man. He has been very polite through this entire ordeal!


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#5210 - 10/03/01 11:24 PM Re: Question about TILA
Anonymous
Unregistered

Sorry, Roger
Does sound like I had a bad day, doesn't it. My apology for attacking your character. It was certainly uncalled for and surely not what we are supposed to be doing here, rather help each other with sensible dialogue. Since you explained the situation better, I get it now. You obviously have a solid complaint, and in a tough situation since it involves your employer. And so I yield to the experts to respond here. Sounds quite complicated. Good luck

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#5211 - 10/03/01 11:37 PM Re: Question about TILA
Roger Offline
New Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
Thanks Gloria,

I had a long day as well and am, quite frankly, sick and tired of dealing with this. I appreciate your response!

Roger


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#5212 - 10/04/01 02:02 PM Re: Question about TILA
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,348
On the Net
Regulations aside, what is right? Lets not play gotcha, lets play, how should it have been.

The person who wrote it down has some liability and people effected by it (who wants a valid lien and who wants a loan paid off) have an interest. But you still have a debt that shouldn't be released because someone made a simple mistake. If you want to do that, call a lawyer.

Find the key players and explain that you will pay what was due as of that date. Here is what you can reasonably afford and when. Who wants to pony up with their part to complete today's deal and collect the difference over some period of time.

If they don't want to cooperate and learn a quality control lesson, poo on them.

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Andy Zavoina
Opinions stated are not necessarily that of my employer.

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AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
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#5213 - 10/04/01 02:11 PM Re: Question about TILA
BankerMama Offline
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BankerMama
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,543
Roger, I too am having a bad day, a bad month, a bad year............ I find myself defensive because it seems that more and more banks are being labeled the bad guys and as a veteran banker that really hurts me.
I love banking and I enjoy serving our customers.

There are probably institutions out there that are doing some things wrong and this puts a bad light on the rest of us. The results are more and more laws and regulations that cause more stress on bankers and more expense on customers.
Hey, that's the way it is with everything in our life. Laws are put in place because someone, not the majority, took advantage of their place in this world. Anyway, that's no excuse for my "flying off the handle". Sorry.

Really, my advise is first talk to your banker and try to get this cleared up (which I understand you already have)but maybe take it to a higher level and second write a complaint letter to the bank's regulator.
The regulator will follow-up with the bank.
If you don't know who regulates the bank, ask them who it is .... FDIC, Federal Reserve, OCC, OTS......

Also, my advise to get an attorney still stands if you feel you need to take it to that level. I am in no position to tell you your rights. Maybe before you go to the expense of an attorney, you can research Regulation Z and any court cases you can get your hands on to see the outcome. I know I saw something recently about a judge's opinion on the borrower's responsibility to review the HUD but I can't put my hands on it now.

Good luck on getting this resolved.


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#5214 - 10/04/01 06:37 PM Re: Question about TILA
Roger Offline
New Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 6
Thanks again for the replies.

Bwest, I noticed on another thread your interest in that particular HUD1 case. I couldn't find it either, but didn't look too thoroughly. I'll try again later & post the link if I am successful. I, also, concur with your feelings that the majority pay for the actions of the few and I don't want to contribute to that. However, sometimes it seems it is simply a way of life and one that is necessary to get use to!

BTW, I empathize with your bad day, bad month, & bad year. Our incentive has been cut almost to the point of being non-existent. Oh and job security is something else lacking lately, even after 10 years of service! These are definitely some interesting times. Good luck to you and thanks again for your help!


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