Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Thread Options Tools
#56662 - 01/25/03 04:24 AM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
I actually prefer to shop in stores that verify ID on credit/debit card purchases. Unfortunately, many cashiers don't even bother to make sure the signature matches the name.

Return to Top
General Discussion
#56663 - 01/26/03 04:20 AM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
One thing I don't understand - if the merchant is not supposed to verify identity, how do they know of the person presenting the debit card is authorized? And if they process an unauthorized transaction, aren't they on the hook for it?
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#56664 - 01/27/03 02:10 AM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Kathleen O. Blanchard Offline

10K Club
Kathleen O. Blanchard
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 21,293
The merchant is supposed to check to see that the card is signed, and match the signatures. Many do that but it certainly is not secure. In today's world of increased ID theft, versus more innocent times when these rules were written, perhaps this will be changing and checking IDs will be required...it would add one more control and can't hurt.
_________________________
Kathleen O. Blanchard, CRCM "Kaybee"
HMDA/CRA Training/Consulting/Mapping
The HMDA Academy
www.kaybeescomplianceinsights.com

Return to Top
#56665 - 01/27/03 02:16 AM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
In reply to:

The merchant is supposed to check to see that the card is signed, and match the signatures. Many do that but it certainly is not secure.



Not only that, but how many people remember to even SIGN the back of their credit cards? Depending on how "common" the signature is, and how good the con artist is, it may not be that hard to do a decent forgery that would withstand the 1 or 2 second glance the salesclerk is going to give it.

I guess that's why more and more cards are incorporating the photos of the cardholder on the face of the card.
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#56666 - 01/27/03 12:03 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Skittles Online
10K Club
Skittles
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,965
TN
I have been asked locally a few times to present my ID. I also remember being asked in Orlando, FL and Gatlinburg, TN. I think the high tourist towns may be a little more wary also and I applaud them when they do ask for my ID.
_________________________
My Opinions Only

Return to Top
#56667 - 01/27/03 01:27 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
E.E.G.B Offline
Power Poster
E.E.G.B
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,726
the sandy shore
I just went to a seminar on the Patriot Act and Identity Theft, and the speaker (from the DA's office) said that it was a part of the Patriot Act that parties accepting credit cards would be required to ask for photo ID going forward. I will say at the outlet mall this weekend, virtually every merchant asked for it, and they were matching name, not signature (I never sign my cards, but they didn't even look at the back of the card to see that.)
_________________________
I disbelieved what he was saying so hard, I probably created an alternate universe where it wasn't true.

Return to Top
#56668 - 01/27/03 02:05 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
LoisLane Offline
Diamond Poster
LoisLane
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,570
Wisteria Lane..
I was at the same meeting on Wednesday. Until then, I didn't realize that the definition of financial institutions (for the Patriot Act) included the retailers who accept credit cards.
_________________________
And where is Superman when I need him?

Return to Top
#56669 - 01/27/03 02:48 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
E.E.G.B Offline
Power Poster
E.E.G.B
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,726
the sandy shore
(Next meeting, we will have to sit together!)
_________________________
I disbelieved what he was saying so hard, I probably created an alternate universe where it wasn't true.

Return to Top
#56670 - 01/27/03 04:26 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Dave M_TCA Online
Platinum Poster
Dave M_TCA
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 686
Wherever my most benevolent em...
I am one of those that instead of signing the card, has written on the back to "Ask to See ID". I probably get asked for my ID 1 out of every 10 times. I always congratulate the ones that ask to see it. I've also had people look at my card, at what I've signed, shake their head OK and hand me back my card, as if what I signed matched my card.
_________________________
David J Mulkerin, CRCM
All opinions expressed are mine and not those of my employer and are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#56671 - 01/27/03 04:41 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
My card also says "See ID" on the back. My statistics match David's, one clerk in ten notices. Ironically, the action primarily protects the merchant, not me.

P.S. Not so certain the DA's opinion on PATRIOT requirements is supportable. There are a lot of entities that meet the definition of a financial instiution, but ID requirements are triggered by "any person seeking to open an account" not using a credit card.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#56672 - 01/27/03 05:22 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Skittles Online
10K Club
Skittles
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,965
TN
In a Visa training class I recently attended I learned that if someone puts 'See ID' on the back of their card that that becomes the valid signature. Visa rules do not allow this.
_________________________
My Opinions Only

Return to Top
#56673 - 01/27/03 05:38 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
***RANT ON***

Is it my imagination, or are the Visa/MC rules weighted in a way that puts all the excess liability on the issuing bank. It really burns my bum when we charge a debit transaction back and it is refused because the merchant got a signature. Not a matching signature, not a matching name, just a signature.

Of course, I don't expect this to change, as the merchants are the ones who are footing the bill for the processing fees, but it still bugs me that the banks end up paying for the merchants' lack of caution.

***RANT OFF***

Return to Top
#56674 - 01/27/03 05:56 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Thank you Dawn, I have been told the same thing, but obviously do not follow instructions well.

Can you, or anyone else, give me an idea as to where this language is located or exactly how its worded? (Not that I'm going to change my my actions mind you, it's just that I thought it was an old wive's tail and dismissed it.) In any case, my only credit card is an AmEx and, believe me, no one honoring AmEx has ever refused to accept it.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#56675 - 01/27/03 05:58 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
Skittles Online
10K Club
Skittles
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,965
TN
It's included in our Visa rules but unfortunately I don't have a copy of it.
_________________________
My Opinions Only

Return to Top
#56676 - 01/27/03 06:02 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Anonymous
Unregistered

The official VISA policy is that when a customer has "Ask to see ID" written on their card, you're supposed to ask them to sign the card, and then compare the signature on the card to the signature on the receipt.
According to VISA you're STILL not supposed to ask for their ID, even when they have this verbage on their card.
This has to be the silliest thing I've ever seen, but I saw it right on VISA's website.

Return to Top
#56677 - 01/27/03 06:03 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
JulesB Offline
Gold Star
JulesB
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 324
A Designated Tree City in OK, ...
I did the same thing on my new debit card I received in November, and have yet to have someone request to see my ID. They usually don't even look at the card, especially when you run it through a self-swipe machine. . .
_________________________
Responses are mine, and are no reflection of my employer.

Return to Top
#56678 - 01/27/03 06:12 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Michelle M Offline
Gold Star
Michelle M
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 422
***RANT WARNING***

I have to agree Anon, this IS the stupidest thing I've ever heard. How does that prove the person is the rightful owner of the card. All it proves is the person can sign the same name twice. ***END RANT***
_________________________
Michelle M Opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer nor are they legal advice

Return to Top
#56679 - 01/27/03 06:20 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
Dan Persfull Offline
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Rhetorical question: If you do not deal with MC/VISA processes within the bank, how many people actually know, or care for that matter, if a merchant can ask for your ID or not when you present a Credit/Debit Card for payment? (The only people that knows, and probably would contest it would be the thieves.)
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#56680 - 01/27/03 07:33 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cash
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
I managed a medical clinic for 8 years prior to becoming a chef then a banker (Yes folks I've done it all!) I don't think I can count the number of bad checks we received back on one hand for the entire time. Regular patients (especially elderly patients) prefered to pay via check and if there was ever an error, it was cleared immediately. I think we had one check outstanding for the last couple of years I managed the place.

Doctors now a'days shouldn't be any different unless they're in a major practice with numerous walk-ins. I'd pay the danged bill with check and see if they cash it! I bet you $20 bucks they do! (I'm trying to make up for my superbowl losses). I normally pay via check at the doctors because it's a good reminder for me to do my insurance billing, verses forgetting the whole thing when I do a debit. I haven't been refused yet. Payment beats non-payment any time.

On the ID...I've recently changed my name and have debit cards in one name and ID in another. NO ONE I mean NO ONE ever notices! The names aren't even similar. I've had folks ask for ID, look at the two different names...and not say a word. I just want to ask...Why bother?
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#56681 - 01/27/03 07:54 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
Ted Dreyer Offline
Diamond Poster
Ted Dreyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,245
In reply to:

I thought it was an old wive's tail




Ken, I think the expression is "old wives tale", but thanks for the chuckle!

Return to Top
#56682 - 01/27/03 08:25 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Thank you for assuming I did that accidentally!
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#56683 - 01/27/03 08:53 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
thomasj Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,063
Pennsylvania
While I agree that I would rather show my ID when using my card than have someone make unauthorized charges to my account, I can see why Visa would have a major problem with merchants asking for ID on a regular basis. They run a multi-million dollar ad campaign based on not asking for ID when people use their checkcards. I wonder if Charlie Sheen, Kevin Bacon, or Bugs Bunny would be upset if there were unauthorized charges to their Visa Checkcard!
_________________________
Knowledge is knowing what to say. Wisdom is knowing when to say it.

Return to Top
#56684 - 01/27/03 09:02 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
mkruhm Offline
Junior Member
mkruhm
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29
I've always wondered what would happen if you wrote "this card is stolen" on the back. How would the cashier react? With my luck, they'd call the police and I'd have... in the words of Ricky Ricardo... "a lot of splainin to do"!

I've written "see photo ID" before, with at best 1 cashier actually noticing.
_________________________
Opinions expressed here are my own and are not necessarily those of my employer.

Return to Top
#56685 - 01/27/03 09:08 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
WildTurkey Offline
Platinum Poster
WildTurkey
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 921
Down South, USA
In the days before on-line credit card machines, in the UK both VISA and MC used to issue stolen/withdrawn cards lists to stores, and as there was a GBP50 (USD80) bounty payable for cards recovered, it was common to see clerks checking your credit card against the latest list.

Someone with my name had their card stolen once and it was quite a sight to see the store clerk peer at my card, then the stolen cards list, then my card again, then the list again - I could already see the GBP50 in their eyes!
_________________________
This is my opinion; it is not legal advice, nor the view of my employer, and it may change tomorrow.

Return to Top
#56686 - 01/27/03 09:24 PM Re: MISC: Check refusal in favor of plastic or cas
JacF Offline

Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
Here's a true story from a former colleague (we'll call her Mary.) Mary was shopping, and attempted to pay for the purchase with her boyfriend's debit card (we'll call him Bob.) The clerk actually checked the name vs. signature, and the following conversation took place:
Clerk: ummm.. I don't think you're Bob.
Mary: Bob's my boyfriend.
Clerk: I don't think I can do this for you.
Mary: Yes you can. My name is on the account.
Clerk: Oh. Ok. *proceeds to complete purchase*

Maybe we should all start signing "Epstein's Mom" to all of our purchases...

Return to Top
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3