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#584382 - 07/19/06 08:57 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
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but the thread did. i actually didn't expect this thread to last as long as it did.

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#584383 - 07/19/06 08:59 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
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Quote:

My ONLY point is that I did not see anywhere in the Bible that God blessed Solomon having multiple wives.



wouldn't that have been a good topic for another thread? the inclusion in this thread seemed like it was trying to prove something else...

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#584384 - 07/19/06 09:12 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

My ONLY point is that I did not see anywhere in the Bible that God blessed Solomon having multiple wives.



wouldn't that have been a good topic for another thread? the inclusion in this thread seemed like it was trying to prove something else...




I didn't bring it up chucklehead.

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#584385 - 07/19/06 09:41 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
I brought it up because some were arguing that ethics are absolutes handed time from the dawn of time and I was trying to show that these things have evolved over time i.e. slavery and polygamy were once considered ethical/moral, surgery was considered immoral.

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#584386 - 07/19/06 09:53 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I brought it up because some were arguing that ethics are absolutes handed time from the dawn of time and I was trying to show that these things have evolved over time i.e. slavery and polygamy were once considered ethical/moral, surgery was considered immoral.




Polygamy is more like the case of divorce, which God tolerated for a while under certain conditions because of the hardness of their hearts, but was not the way it was intended from the beginning (Matt. 19:8). But whenever the Mosaic law had provisions for polygamy, it was always the conditional "If he takes another wife to himself" (Ex.21:10), never an encouragement. God put a number of obligations of the husband towards the additional wives which would discourage polygamy. It is no wonder that polygamy was unknown among the Jews after the Babylonian exile, and monogamy was the rule even among the Greeks and Romans by New Testament times.

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#584387 - 07/19/06 09:54 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
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Wasn't the change related to surgery not so much a change of ethics related to the practice, but rather a change of the understanding of surgery.

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#584388 - 07/19/06 10:52 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Quote:

I brought it up because some were arguing that ethics are absolutes handed time from the dawn of time and I was trying to show that these things have evolved over time i.e. slavery and polygamy were once considered ethical/moral, surgery was considered immoral.




So, Straw, you think that, while slavery is immoral today, those in the past who enslaved others were acting morally?

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#584389 - 07/20/06 12:00 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Retired DQ Offline
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Turnpike Exit 10
Well, I guess the discussion can die, our illustrious prez vetoed the proposal.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#584390 - 07/20/06 12:05 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

Well, I guess the discussion can die, our illustrious prez vetoed the proposal.




Don't worry DQ, I'm doubtful that our next President will be similarly concerned about the destruction of innocent human life.

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#584391 - 07/20/06 12:23 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Retired DQ Offline
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Turnpike Exit 10
Sometimes I feel like BOL is a Charlie Brown movie...

wah wah wa wa wah wah wah wa wwa...

_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#584392 - 07/20/06 12:43 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Jokerman Offline
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You do kind of remind me of Peppermint Patty.

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#584393 - 07/20/06 12:54 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Well, I guess the discussion can die, our illustrious prez vetoed the proposal.




Don't worry DQ, I'm doubtful that our next President will be similarly concerned about the destruction of innocent human life.



however, i DO think that our next president will care about the health and well-being of our citizens and NOT choose to ascribe to an ultra-conservative view about the realities of science and the inapplicability of biblical "science" to the modern day.

where is his outcry and push to get rid of in vitro fertilization? stupid couples trying to play God...

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#584394 - 07/20/06 12:57 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

Wasn't the change related to surgery not so much a change of ethics related to the practice, but rather a change of the understanding of surgery.




Could that be true with the understanding of stem cells or an embryo today? Is is possible?

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#584395 - 07/20/06 12:59 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Wasn't the change related to surgery not so much a change of ethics related to the practice, but rather a change of the understanding of surgery.




Could that be true with the understanding of stem cells or an embryo today? Is is possible?



no! i said 7 minute abs!

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#584396 - 07/20/06 01:00 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

Quote:

I brought it up because some were arguing that ethics are absolutes handed time from the dawn of time and I was trying to show that these things have evolved over time i.e. slavery and polygamy were once considered ethical/moral, surgery was considered immoral.




So, Straw, you think that, while slavery is immoral today, those in the past who enslaved others were acting morally?




They thought they were. Is the reverse possible? That things we deem immoral today will be moral tomorrow?

As we become more enlightened, our morality/ethics, etc adjust to that enlightenment. That enlightenment can come from science, religion, whatever the source, but according to you, these things have always been immoral.

Were slave owners like Wash. and Jefferson immoral?

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#584397 - 07/20/06 01:02 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
straw Offline
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straw
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Posts: 9,121
So J, do you support the President's Solomonic decision a few years ago that allowed federal funds to be spent on research on existing stem cells.

If destroying those embryos is akin to murder, why did he split hairs. Doesn't that weaken his argument? Did you oppose it?

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#584398 - 07/20/06 01:04 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
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Quote:

So J, do you support the President's Solomonic decision a few years ago that allowed federal funds to be spent on research on existing stem cells.

If destroying those embryos is akin to murder, why did he split hairs. Doesn't that weaken his argument? Did you oppose it?



once again, i said 7 minute abs!

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#584399 - 07/20/06 01:04 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Retired DQ Offline
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Turnpike Exit 10
Quote:

You do kind of remind me of Peppermint Patty.




Actually, I am nicknamed "Lucy".
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

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#584400 - 07/20/06 01:41 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

"I think a lot of people are going to vote on this issue," Danforth said. He bristled at the suggestion that it could motivate conservatives and help the party.

"I served in elected office as a Republican for 26 years," he said. "Is somebody telling me I don't count? My brother doesn't count? What counts is that religious theory that says what takes place in a lab dish takes precedent over my brother?"

- Former Senator John Danforth, MO

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#584401 - 07/20/06 01:49 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I brought it up because some were arguing that ethics are absolutes handed time from the dawn of time and I was trying to show that these things have evolved over time i.e. slavery and polygamy were once considered ethical/moral, surgery was considered immoral.




So, Straw, you think that, while slavery is immoral today, those in the past who enslaved others were acting morally?




They thought they were. Is the reverse possible? That things we deem immoral today will be moral tomorrow?

As we become more enlightened, our morality/ethics, etc adjust to that enlightenment. That enlightenment can come from science, religion, whatever the source, but according to you, these things have always been immoral.

Were slave owners like Wash. and Jefferson immoral?




So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?

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#584402 - 07/20/06 02:08 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?



not at all. you want to view it as people changing their opinions about the need for morality when, really, what is moral is what is being redefined. it only seems like what you suggested in your question because you are unwilling to change your point of view.

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#584403 - 07/20/06 02:29 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?



not at all. you want to view it as people changing their opinions about the need for morality when, really, what is moral is what is being redefined. it only seems like what you suggested in your question because you are unwilling to change your point of view.




Thanks for telling me what I want, I've been wondering that for years now.

Also, cudos for letting me know what I am suggesting.

You mentioned my "point of view" but you neglected to tell me what it is. I'd be interested to know what my point of view is?

________________________________________________

Ron, you are not very good at reading between the lines and you have the odd habit of being so defensive that you allow what you are reading between the lines to cloud most your posts.

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#584404 - 07/20/06 02:31 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?



not at all. you want to view it as people changing their opinions about the need for morality when, really, what is moral is what is being redefined. it only seems like what you suggested in your question because you are unwilling to change your point of view.




So, there are moral absolutes?

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#584405 - 07/20/06 02:39 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?



not at all. you want to view it as people changing their opinions about the need for morality when, really, what is moral is what is being redefined. it only seems like what you suggested in your question because you are unwilling to change your point of view.




Thanks for telling me what I want, I've been wondering that for years now.

Also, cudos for letting me know what I am suggesting.

You mentioned my "point of view" but you neglected to tell me what it is. I'd be interested to know what my point of view is?

________________________________________________

Ron, you are not very good at reading between the lines and you have the odd habit of being so defensive that you allow what you are reading between the lines to cloud most your posts.



tell me what your post suggested then. i thought your rhetoric gave it away. i guess you are just a clumsy, haphazard type of writer.

and "cudos" to you, too.

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#584406 - 07/20/06 02:59 PM Re: Faith and Ignorance
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So does what is moral change as opinions on morality change?



not at all. you want to view it as people changing their opinions about the need for morality when, really, what is moral is what is being redefined. it only seems like what you suggested in your question because you are unwilling to change your point of view.




Thanks for telling me what I want, I've been wondering that for years now.

Also, cudos for letting me know what I am suggesting.

You mentioned my "point of view" but you neglected to tell me what it is. I'd be interested to know what my point of view is?

________________________________________________

Ron, you are not very good at reading between the lines and you have the odd habit of being so defensive that you allow what you are reading between the lines to cloud most your posts.



tell me what your post suggested then. i thought your rhetoric gave it away. i guess you are just a clumsy, haphazard type of writer.

and "cudos" to you, too.




Chucklehead, it was not a suggestion at all. It was a question I asked of straw, not you; about a comment he made, not you. And maybe I do write clumsly here on BOL, but I assure you I am no clumsy writer.

BTW: I use the name "Chucklehead" in good fun. If it bothers you, I'll stop.

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