Thread Options
#591189 - 07/31/06 09:03 PM Aggregate CTR Reporting
nmurphy Offline
New Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 5
Reston, VA
My question concerns aggregating CTR reporting for cash transactions made to separate companies under separate EINs located in separate towns but owned by the same individual. We have accounts for six gas stations, each station averages 4 CTRs a week based on their cash deposits which are brought to the same branch, on the same day, by separate individuals (sometimes the owner, sometimes one of his employees). We have been completing separate CTRs based on the EIN number and business address; we do not aggregate the accounts. Is this process correct, or should we aggregate?

Return to Top
BSA/AML/CIP/OFAC Forum
#591190 - 08/01/06 12:03 AM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
SamIAM Offline
100 Club
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 212
Look at FinCEN Ruling 2001-2 dated 8/23/01. That might answer your question.

Return to Top
#591191 - 08/01/06 12:10 AM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
If the companies are separate entities then they are separate persons as far as CTR filing is concerned. You do not aggregate based on common ownership, you aggregate only if the transactions were by or on behalf of the same person.

Read the guidance cited slowly and carefully. It is often described as saying exactly the opposite of what it actually says. Aggregation was required there because the owner did not treat the entities as separate organisms. Their financial activities were simply a mish mash; there was no way to separate their finances and no purpose in doing so.

Although it does not affect CTR filing, common ownership is very, very relevant to AML monitoring.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#591192 - 08/01/06 12:26 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
P*Q Offline

Power Poster
P*Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,439
Somewhere
Here's a scenario. We have an insurance company as a customer who often averages over $10K in deposits. They've recently established a finance entity to finance the insurance premiums of their customers. The owners on each of the accounts are the same. Sometimes the owners make the deposits, sometimes an employee into both accounts where the total does exceed $10K. Aggregate CTR?

Return to Top
#591193 - 08/01/06 12:37 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Skittles Offline
10K Club
Skittles
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 13,963
TN
If the same individual is making deposits into both accounts then aggregate. If the deposits are made by different individuals, don't aggregate.
_________________________
My Opinions Only

Return to Top
#591194 - 08/01/06 12:37 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
P*Q Offline

Power Poster
P*Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,439
Somewhere
Thanks Skittles. That's what we've been doing but I second guessed myself.

Return to Top
#591195 - 08/01/06 12:54 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
devsfan Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,927
NYC
Even if the deposits are conducted by different persons, I believe that you have to be aware of the point that Ken raised, namely if funds are moved among the accounts after the cash transactions. I have had several customers like this over the years who had different businesses with different EINs but who transferred funds back and forth, making a skeptic such as me, wonder if the businesses were organized only to facilitate splitting of the deposits and avoiding CTRs. In cases such as this I see no problem in considering that the owner benefits from the cash transactions and filing aggregate CTRs showing all businesses that had cash transactions.

Return to Top
#591196 - 08/01/06 03:20 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Tiger Fan Offline
100 Club
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 180
During the OTS phone conference yesterday, this question was asked and the answer given was you would aggregate the total cash if the companies are under common ownership. Someone even asked them to clarify the answer and they repeated their answer.

Return to Top
#591197 - 08/01/06 03:40 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
P*Q Offline

Power Poster
P*Q
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,439
Somewhere
Evan if different folks made the deposits?

Return to Top
#591198 - 08/01/06 04:11 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Ted Dreyer Offline
Diamond Poster
Ted Dreyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,245
Quote:

During the OTS phone conference yesterday, this question was asked and the answer given was you would aggregate the total cash if the companies are under common ownership. Someone even asked them to clarify the answer and they repeated their answer.




Actually they did say that the first time, but later they came back and clarified to say that you aggregate if the companies are not being operated as separate and independent entities . They tried to make is sound as though they were giving the same answer, but they were actually correcting their earlier incorrect statement. They are putting out the Q&As in written form, so watch for that.

Return to Top
#591199 - 08/01/06 05:12 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
10K Club
Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Thank you, Ted. This is even tougher for people when the regulators garble the answer.
_________________________
In this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant.

Return to Top
#591200 - 08/01/06 06:21 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Ted Dreyer Offline
Diamond Poster
Ted Dreyer
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,245
Here is the FinCEN guidance that Max mentioned earlier Fincen ruling

It says: "The mere fact that separately incorporated businesses are owned by the same person does not itself trigger the requirement to aggregate currency transactions involving multiple businesses for purposes of 31 CFR 103.22. However, common ownership of corporations or other types of businesses may be relevant to a determination that aggregation is required if combined with other factors indicating that the corporations or businesses are not operated separately and independently."

Return to Top
#591201 - 08/03/06 12:16 AM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Dolly Nugent Offline
Diamond Poster
Dolly Nugent
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,820
Southern California
I'm so glad this ruling is being discussed. I mentioned in another post recently that every BSA Officer needs to be familiar with it. The scary part is when you find a customer that is not operating their companies as separate entities. Many systems use TINs to aggregate transactions for CTR purposes. It may be necessary to adopt a manual system to capture reportable transactions for these types of customers.
_________________________
Dolly Nugent
CRCM
Opinions expressed are my own.

Return to Top
#591202 - 08/03/06 12:37 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
devsfan Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,927
NYC
Many AML software solutions look at the TINs of common signers on different accounts as an aid in identifying accounts that could be candidates for aggregation. Even if this is identified after the fact, it could lead to an investigation of the accounts, the signers or owners, and their activity, so that aggregation could be done going forward. I have seen many "separate" accounts with cash transactions done by different conductors at different times of the day who then moved money back and forth at will.

Return to Top
#591203 - 08/03/06 01:13 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Tiger Fan Offline
100 Club
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 180
Ted, Thanks for the clarification. I guess you listened better than I did, because it sounded like the same answer. I will definately look for the Q&A when they are posted.

Return to Top
#591204 - 08/03/06 03:41 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
Bagweaver Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,409
SW GA
We have a customer with two business names and two TINs for those names. However, all revenues are generated from one business. We have had to file CTRs and included both business names/numbers due to how he operates his business. We discussed the situation with the OTS prior to filing anything and followed their instructions.
_________________________
Semiretired. Working parttime at Historic Westville as a tour guide.

Return to Top
#591205 - 08/03/06 04:52 PM Re: Aggregate CTR Reporting
kbob Offline
New Poster
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1
A client cash's checks for an aggregate of over $10,000 for multiple business under the same ownership. How should the CTR's be filed? Multiple Section 1's? etc.
thanks in advance for guidance.

Return to Top

Moderator:  Andy_Z