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#596107 - 08/10/06 02:52 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
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Ok, so if we've known that nitrogycerin was a threat since '95, why haven't we banned liquids in carry-ons since then (or least since 911). A year from now if there's a plot to hijack planes by using chopsticks to poke the pilot's eyes out, then wooden objects will be banned. All of the security measures seem to be reactionary.
I really don't think that the administration is MANIPULATING this (i.e., making it up, or even controlling the timing of the release of news). They do, however, capitalize on news like this, saying that there's still threats out there and look at how great we are at stopping them, the democrats couldn't possibly do such a great job, elect a democrat and there will be another 911, blah, blah, blah.
Terrorism isn't a new thing, how many terrorism plots had been stopped prior to 911? Did we hear about all of them? I doubt it.
These terrorists were caught via the skilled police work of Scotland Yard, not by some TSA knucklehead making a traveling mother taste her bottle of baby formula.
Again on risk management, even with pre-911 level security, you or I are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than to be hit by a bus.
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#596108 - 08/10/06 02:53 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Great way they disclose it to everyone. Like yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater.
I don't think it's the same thing as hollering "fire." We're walking a tightrope here. Maybe the disclosure will give neo-terrorists new ideas, but I think the disclosure in general will tend to persuade active terrorist to abandon this tactic -- and that's a good thing.
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#596109 - 08/10/06 03:02 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Again on risk management, even with pre-911 level security, you or I are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than to be hit by a bus.
Unless we're flying on an airplane, in which case our chances of dying in a terrorist attack are infinitely greater than our chances of being hit by a bus. 
- rainman
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#596111 - 08/10/06 03:03 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Again on risk management, even with pre-911 level security, you or I are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than to be hit by a bus.
Are you suggesting that in managing our limited security resources, we'd save more lives if we devoted more time to managing the risk of folks getting hit by buses and less to terrorist attacks. 
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#596112 - 08/10/06 03:12 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Power Poster
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
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Quote:
Quote:
Again on risk management, even with pre-911 level security, you or I are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than to be hit by a bus.
Are you suggesting that in managing our limited security resources, we'd save more lives if we devoted more time to managing the risk of folks getting hit by buses and less to terrorist attacks.
The bus example is facetious, but we do have limited resources and virtually unlimited risks, including those posed by natural disasters (e.g., Katrina). We, as a country, don't do a great job at balancing. I'm not singling out this administration. Certainly Bush overemphasizes the terror risk compared with other risks, but Gore would have overemphasized the global warming risk.
The Office of Homeland Security should really be an Office of National Risk Management, and take an objective view of all the risks facing our country.
It's human nature though, we fear a terrorist attack because we saw the horrific scenes of 911. We may not buckle our seatbelts, we may light up another cigarette, or eat another BK quad-stacker, all of which pose more risk to our lives personally than a terrorist attack.
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#596113 - 08/10/06 03:18 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,559
Foxboro
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Quote:
Quote:
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Again on risk management, even with pre-911 level security, you or I are less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than to be hit by a bus.
Are you suggesting that in managing our limited security resources, we'd save more lives if we devoted more time to managing the risk of folks getting hit by buses and less to terrorist attacks.
The bus example is facetious, but we do have limited resources and virtually unlimited risks, including those posed by natural disasters (e.g., Katrina). We, as a country, don't do a great job at balancing. I'm not singling out this administration. Certainly Bush overemphasizes the terror risk compared with other risks, but Gore would have overemphasized the global warming risk.
The Office of Homeland Security should really be an Office of National Risk Management, and take an objective view of all the risks facing our country.
It's human nature though, we fear a terrorist attack because we saw the horrific scenes of 911. We may not buckle our seatbelts, we may light up another cigarette, or eat another BK quad-stacker, all of which pose more risk to our lives personally than a terrorist attack.
Those examples you gave TICG are examples of risks we can personally manage. If i smoke, drink and eat quad stackers everyday, that is my choice and I need to live with the consequences. (until i sue RJ Reynolds, Budweiser and BK because these are all bad for me and I didn't know better   ) but I personally don't have a lot of control over the airport security.
We obviously have limited resources, and yes, we (gov't) may react to the issue of the day, but what options are there??? Don't we have to respond to this and do what we can to avoid it, or at least minimize it?
_________________________
Best QB Ever. Worst Defense Ever.
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#596114 - 08/10/06 03:21 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
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I guess my question is:
Why isn't there a think tank of some kind trying to come up with every conceivable way a plane could be blown to bits? Then they could use this information to set policies. Why do we wait for the terrorist to be innovative and then react?
_________________________
If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?
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#596115 - 08/10/06 03:22 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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You don't think there are people out there with the desire and ability to make a dirty bomb? The destruction from that would make all the bus accidents since buses were created pale by comparison. It is easy to detonate, but requires a lot of effort to prevent. I think the risk is great and the effort worthwhile. Individual responsibility can prevent most bus accidents, but not a dirty bomb (unless you want to rely on the individual responsibility of a terrorist).
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#596116 - 08/10/06 03:28 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Quote:
This is good news. Why are we fussing about it in the Cooler?
That's a good question, Suzy. Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
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#596117 - 08/10/06 03:36 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
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This is good news. Why are we fussing about it in the Cooler?
That's a good question, Suzy. Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
If the planes had blown up The Incredibly Confused Guy would be claiming Bush let it happen and why couldn't it be prevented. Come on, get a clue. This is good, don't push it back on the administration.
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#596118 - 08/10/06 03:42 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
We may not buckle our seatbelts, we may light up another cigarette, or eat another BK quad-stacker, all of which pose more risk to our lives personally than a terrorist attack.
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#596119 - 08/10/06 03:42 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
This is good news. Why are we fussing about it in the Cooler?
That's a good question, Suzy. Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
True, -5-, but why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back? This seems to me to be an isolated incident that has been contained. I think it's more indicative of a cooperation between US and UK security forces, which is always a good thing.
Like I said, it's good news but it doesn't make the conservatives heroes and it doesn't make the liberals goats.
Suzy
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#596120 - 08/10/06 03:49 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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If the Bush Adminstration lets the American public know of a threat and that they are doing everythign they can to thwart it, then a plane blows up, those who flew in spite of the warning took the risk and maybe we believe the Administration when it says, "despite our best efforts, it still happened."
However, if they say nothing, then a plane blows up, how many people will believe the President when he says, "we knew about this...really...we were doing everything we could...honestly...we didn't tell you because we didn't want to make it look political...REALLY, REALLY...and we did not want to cause a frenzy...YOU'VE GOTTA BELIEVE ME!!!!" If he waits, despite the congressional report that shows that the administration did everything it could do, we'd pick apart anything among the millions of pieces of information that in our perfect 20/20 hindsight, should have been caught, but was overlooked.
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#596121 - 08/10/06 03:52 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,896
R.I.P. Chief Illiniwek
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No matter what happens in this world, I'm convinced that 50% of people will find some way to be ticked off about it.
_________________________
We're doing oil changes. Oil changes for EVERYONE!!
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#596122 - 08/10/06 03:53 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
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This is good news. Why are we fussing about it in the Cooler?
That's a good question, Suzy. Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
True, -5-, but why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back? This seems to me to be an isolated incident that has been contained. I think it's more indicative of a cooperation between US and UK security forces, which is always a good thing.
Like I said, it's good news but it doesn't make the conservatives heroes and it doesn't make the liberals goats.
Suzy
WHAT!!!! You've got to be kidding. So, you want the right to yell admissions from the top of their lungs when things don't go so well. Then you want silence from everyone when there's good news?
It is not a right vs. left thing. The US and UK foiled a plot. Those that foiled it were not left or right; they were doing a job and doing it well!
No one is breaking their arms here. It is good news and it should be heralded!
Sheesh!!!
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#596123 - 08/10/06 03:55 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
No matter what happens in this world, I'm convinced that 50% of people will find some way to be ticked off about it.
This ticks me off, Skunk Boy.
Suzy
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#596124 - 08/10/06 03:58 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,141
In the Snow :)
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Absolutely Right - It's not a left or right thing. The news had to be published. If you were one of passengers stuck in London, wouldn't you be telling everyone about when you finally get home?
_________________________
The woods are lovely dark & deep & I have promises to keep & miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep
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#596125 - 08/10/06 04:01 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
True, -5-, but
No "but". It's just plain true. Here's some posts from a thread started one month ago to congratulate the FBI for the disruption of a terror plot in NYC:
"I think it [reporting the disruption of the plot] primarily just fuels fear, which is exactly what the administration wants, since the supposed great job they are doing to fight terrorism is the one thing that they can get people to believe they are doing right. Furthermore, I believe in most cases, the terrorists would be unsuccessful anyway."
"I'm a Bush-hating moderate"
"I think there are a lot [of people who hate Bush]...a whole lot."
"I would be intersted in knowing what part of the country you live in that you believe that not many people hate Bush."
Unfortunately, for the lefties, Bush hatred overrides everything else.
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why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back?
Show me the post where someone patted conservatives on the back. The ones who deserve a pat on the back - and who have received one in this thread - are the law enforcement and intelligence officers who disrupted this effort.
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This seems to me to be an isolated incident
???!!!
Isolated from what?! And how could you possibly know that yet? The only thing I've heard that indicated whether or not it was isolated was that it involved as many as fifty people and had hallmarks of an Al-Qaeda operation.
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#596126 - 08/10/06 04:02 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,854
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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Why isn't there a think tank of some kind trying to come up with every conceivable way a plane could be blown to bits?
There is - you just don't know about it. Much like the US Army has always denied there is something called Delta Force.
_________________________
Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#596127 - 08/10/06 04:04 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
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This is good news. Why are we fussing about it in the Cooler?
That's a good question, Suzy. Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
True, -5-, but why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back? This seems to me to be an isolated incident that has been contained. I think it's more indicative of a cooperation between US and UK security forces, which is always a good thing.
Like I said, it's good news but it doesn't make the conservatives heroes and it doesn't make the liberals goats.
Suzy
If only members of the political right are touting this sucessful thwarting of a major terrorist plot, possibly saving many lives and protecting the public's trust in air travel, then maybe, just maybe, the better question is:
Why isn't the left also patting anyone responsible (regardless of political affiliation) on the back?
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#596128 - 08/10/06 04:05 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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True, -5-, but why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back? This seems to me to be an isolated incident that has been contained. I think it's more indicative of a cooperation between US and UK security forces, which is always a good thing.
Like I said, it's good news but it doesn't make the conservatives heroes and it doesn't make the liberals goats.
Suzy
WHAT!!!! You've got to be kidding. So, you want the right to yell admissions from the top of their lungs when things don't go so well. Then you want silence from everyone when there's good news?
It is not a right vs. left thing. The US and UK foiled a plot. Those that foiled it were not left or right; they were doing a job and doing it well!
No one is breaking their arms here. It is good news and it should be heralded!
Sheesh!!!
That's what I said, anon. It's not a left/right, Bush/Blair thing. It's good news. Let us rejoice.
Sheesh, backatcha.
Suzy
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#596129 - 08/10/06 04:07 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why are some liberals on this thread fussing about good news? It's almost as if they don't want any good news to happen while George W. Bush is still in office.
True, -5-, but
No "but". It's just plain true. Here's some posts from a thread started one month ago to congratulate the FBI for the disruption of a terror plot in NYC:
"I think it [reporting the disruption of the plot] primarily just fuels fear, which is exactly what the administration wants, since the supposed great job they are doing to fight terrorism is the one thing that they can get people to believe they are doing right. Furthermore, I believe in most cases, the terrorists would be unsuccessful anyway."
"I'm a Bush-hating moderate"
"I think there are a lot [of people who hate Bush]...a whole lot."
"I would be intersted in knowing what part of the country you live in that you believe that not many people hate Bush."
Unfortunately, for the lefties, Bush hatred overrides everything else.
Quote:
why are the conservatives breaking their arms patting themselves on the back?
Show me the post where someone patted conservatives on the back. The ones who deserve a pat on the back - and who have received one in this thread - are the law enforcement and intelligence officers who disrupted this effort.
Quote:
This seems to me to be an isolated incident
???!!!
Isolated from what?! And how could you possibly know that yet? The only thing I've heard that indicated whether or not it was isolated was that it involved as many as fifty people and had hallmarks of an Al-Qaeda operation.
Ok.
Suzy
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#596130 - 08/10/06 04:09 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
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Option one is to pretend that 9/11 was an isolated incident (or a hidden internal conspiracy), not the revelation of a new and serious long-term danger. Many anti-war types prefer option one. Option two is to acknowledge the danger of mass-scale terrorism using weapons of mass destruction, but rely on negotiations, economic incentives, “grand bargains,” etc. to solve the problem (the favorite Democratic solution). In the absence of a credible threat of force (and maybe even then, given the nature of our terrorist foe), I think option two is doomed. Option three is to deploy force to preempt one rogue state and frighten others, while depending on a rapidly-spreading wave of democratization to assure long-term change, and permit relatively rapid American military withdrawal. Option three is not working out as planned. Option four is an expanded American military and a combination of more attacks (eg. a strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities) with an extended and enlarged occupation of Iraq, working real social transformation and democratization. In the absence of a major new terror strike on the U.S., or an Iran on or over the nuclear brink, option four is politically unsustainable.
This seems to me to be an isolated incident that has been contained.
Guess we can mark Suzy down for option one.
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#596131 - 08/10/06 04:12 PM
Re: UK - US Terror Threat
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Guess we can mark Suzy down for option one.
Based on her secret, hush-hush, surveillance of these terrorists?
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