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#604528 - 08/24/06 08:46 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
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Quote:

I don't care to go down any road with you. It amazes me that you care more about murderers than innocent human life, but that's your position and you are the one that has to justify it.



why does opposing the DP mean i have compassion for murderers? that's not my logic on that at all.

i don't think the Bible is NOT a source of authority, i just don't want a christian caliphate.

"...innocent [cells] ought to be protected" (that's another way to look at this)

do you really want to talk about this with your view of the DP?

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#604529 - 08/24/06 08:48 PM Re: FDA Approval
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Oh goodie we have moved to the death penalty again.
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#604530 - 08/24/06 08:50 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Oh goodie we have moved to the death penalty again.



we haven't unless sanctity of life is their rationale.

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#604531 - 08/24/06 08:50 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
I didn't say you had compassion on murderers, I said that you care more about them then you do the innocent unborn. And I will talk about this with my views of the death penalty any day of the week. I understand that you can't wrap your mind around that, but I really don't care, especially considering that you would be so stupid as to compare people who respect innocent human life to a group of fascists who believe the exact opposite.

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#604532 - 08/24/06 08:53 PM Re: FDA Approval
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
Many of the same people who are so concerned about saving bundles of cells don't seem to have the same concern about young men and women being sent to their death in Iraq. It is a case of selective morals.

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#604533 - 08/24/06 08:53 PM Re: FDA Approval
Happy Birthday Dip Offline
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Dip
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,298
San Diego, CA
Quote:

Quote:

my friend took this pill once (got it from planned parent hood after having an abortion).

it makes you super sick to your stomach--cramping, nausea, vomiting. it wiped her out for an entire day. she said after going through it, she'd make sure she wouldnt have to take another pill. so, i say it's a good idea to make it available.




(a) Yeah, that sounds rough - not quite as bad as ceasing to exist, though.

(b) I'm not sure I understand the logic. Your friend terminated an unwanted pregnancy, then received this product, which she took later to terminate or prevent another unwanted pregnancy. After taking this product, she had a hysterectomy/tubes tied/prescription filled for birth control, in order to avoid taking it again. She did so because of the side effects.

First, isn't it odd that having the traditional abortion itself did not provide a similar motivation? Second, you think that it is a good thing that this is available because of the uncomfortable side effects, not because it is effective at ending/preventing pregnancies?




well, if you get an abortion early enough, aside from the emotions, it is not that painful. my friend liekened it to getting a lengthy pap smear. And 15 minutes later or however long it took, you'rs done. not that bad if you weren't emotionally involved in it.

i'm not condoning abortion or the morning after pill (which literally needs to be taken within so many hours of unprotected sex, and who's to say there was fertilization anyway?) but i do think that most girls who take it will make sure they won't have to take it a second time after goign through the horrible side-effects. the morning after pill affects them directly, not just the fertilized egg.
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#604534 - 08/24/06 08:51 PM Re: FDA Approval
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Ah, and the personal attacks begin.
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#604535 - 08/24/06 08:53 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

well, if you get an abortion early enough, aside from the emotions, it is not that painful. my friend liekened it to getting a lengthy pap smear. And 15 minutes later or however long it took, you'rs done. not that bad if you weren't emotionally involved in it.

i'm not condoning abortion or the morning after pill (which literally needs to be taken within so many hours of unprotected sex, and who's to say there was fertilization anyway?) but i do think that most girls who take it will make sure they won't have to take it a second time after goign through the horrible side-effects. the morning after pill affects them directly, not just the fertilized egg.




I'm sorry, but this post is just ghoulish.

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#604536 - 08/24/06 08:53 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

I didn't say you had compassion on murderers, I said that you care more about them then you do the innocent unborn. And I will talk about this with my views of the death penalty any day of the week. I understand that you can't wrap your mind around that, but I really don't care, especially considering that you would be so stupid as to compare people who respect innocent human life to a group of fascists who believe the exact opposite.



the innocent cellular clusters you mean?

respect life but favor DP. reason? the bible says...
similarity? religiously-based law.

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#604537 - 08/24/06 08:54 PM Re: FDA Approval
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

my friend took this pill once (got it from planned parent hood after having an abortion).

it makes you super sick to your stomach--cramping, nausea, vomiting. it wiped her out for an entire day. she said after going through it, she'd make sure she wouldnt have to take another pill. so, i say it's a good idea to make it available.




(a) Yeah, that sounds rough - not quite as bad as ceasing to exist, though.

(b) I'm not sure I understand the logic. Your friend terminated an unwanted pregnancy, then received this product, which she took later to terminate or prevent another unwanted pregnancy. After taking this product, she had a hysterectomy/tubes tied/prescription filled for birth control, in order to avoid taking it again. She did so because of the side effects.

First, isn't it odd that having the traditional abortion itself did not provide a similar motivation? Second, you think that it is a good thing that this is available because of the uncomfortable side effects, not because it is effective at ending/preventing pregnancies?




well, if you get an abortion early enough, aside from the emotions, it is not that painful. my friend liekened it to getting a lengthy pap smear. And 15 minutes later or however long it took, you'rs done. not that bad if you weren't emotionally involved in it.

i'm not condoning abortion or the morning after pill (which literally needs to be taken within so many hours of unprotected sex, and who's to say there was fertilization anyway?) but i do think that most girls who take it will make sure they won't have to take it a second time after goign through the horrible side-effects. the morning after pill affects them directly, not just the fertilized egg.




Most importantly:

It was her body and her choice. She alone will have to answer for what she did and no one else needs to be concerned about it. Thanks for sharing, Dip.
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If electricity comes from electrons, does morality come from morons?

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#604538 - 08/24/06 08:55 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Many of the same people who are so concerned about saving bundles of cells don't seem to have the same concern about young men and women being sent to their death in Iraq. It is a case of selective morals.




People die when nations make the decision to go to war. Unless you want to argue that no war is ever just, you are in a logical dead-end here.

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#604539 - 08/24/06 08:57 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

the morning after pill affects them directly, not just the fertilized egg.



once again, it does not affect the fertilized egg. it affects embedding with the uterus.

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#604540 - 08/24/06 09:00 PM Re: FDA Approval
deppfan Offline
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,184
All over the map.
Quote:

Many of the same people who are so concerned about saving bundles of cells don't seem to have the same concern about young men and women being sent to their death in Iraq. It is a case of selective morals.




I'm very concerned about young men and women being sent to Iraq to face death, but didn't they have a choice to enlist or not enlist?
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#604541 - 08/24/06 08:59 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

the innocent cellular clusters you mean?




You can be as flippant as you like, Ron. The fact is, you are nothing more than a bigger cellular cluster that has been given more time to develop.

Quote:

respect life but favor DP. reason?




The reason I respect life certainly is certainly informed by my beliefs. Why do you believe murder ought to be a crime? The reason I favor the death penalty (and I've written this at least 15 times, I can't believe you have to ask again, Mr. Revenge) is because I believe that society must enforce the ultimate penalty for the ultimate crime (taking innocent human life). Doing anything less lowers the value attached to innocent life.

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#604542 - 08/24/06 09:00 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

You can be as flippant as you like, Ron. The fact is, you are nothing more than a bigger cellular cluster that has been given more time to develop.



oh, so there is no significance then?

black or white. black or white...

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#604543 - 08/24/06 09:01 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

Most importantly:

It was her body and her choice.




Legally, yes. That wasn't the point of the discussion, however.

Quote:

no one else needs to be concerned about it.




I disagree.

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#604544 - 08/24/06 09:02 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

so there is no significance then?




Your side of the argument appears to believe that human life is insignificant, yes.

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#604545 - 08/24/06 09:03 PM Re: FDA Approval
Happy Birthday Dip Offline
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Dip
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,298
San Diego, CA
Quote:

Quote:

the morning after pill affects them directly, not just the fertilized egg.



once again, it does not affect the fertilized egg. it affects embedding with the uterus.




ok, so what happens to the egg when the lining of the uterus does whatever it does to prevent the pregnancy??? somewhere along the line, the possibly fertilized egg dies (yes, its living, maybe it doesnt have a soul, but it is living cells) as a result of takign the pill.
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#604546 - 08/24/06 09:05 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

once again, it does not affect the fertilized egg. it affects embedding with the uterus.




Nice distinction - I didn't starve my newborn, I just affected it's access to nutrition.

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#604547 - 08/24/06 09:16 PM Re: FDA Approval
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
Quote:

Quote:

once again, it does not affect the fertilized egg. it affects embedding with the uterus.




Nice distinction - I didn't starve my newborn, I just affected it's access to nutrition.




Hey, maybe if we close down the White House kitchen...

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#604548 - 08/24/06 09:48 PM Re: FDA Approval
straw Offline
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straw
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
Quote:

the innocent cellular clusters you mean?




Quote:

You can be as flippant as you like, Ron. The fact is, you are nothing more than a bigger cellular cluster that has been given more time to develop.





So the gangle of cells in an egg do not deserve any rights, but the gaggle of cells in a Zygote deserve protection. Both, given the right circumstances (sprem and time for one, time for the other) will grow into human beings.

Why not protect the rights of the egg? Why allow birth control of any kind, since that would interfere with the right of that egg to potentially grow into a human being?

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#604549 - 08/24/06 09:56 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
10K Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

So the gangle of cells in an egg do not deserve any rights, but the gaggle of cells in a Zygote deserve protection. Both, given the right circumstances (sprem and time for one, time for the other) will grow into human beings. Why not protect the rights of the egg?




Both are not human beings - an egg is simply a woman's reproductive cell, no different in classification from a sperm cell. Once fertilized, however, it is a separate, distinct, and complete human being in its earliest stage of development.

Straw, you know this. I hope that you are asking so that others can read and understand, not simply to be argumentative.

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#604550 - 08/24/06 10:30 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

Quote:

Once fertilized, however, it is a separate, distinct, and complete human being in its earliest stage of development.





A fertilized egg is a complete human being? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think that many people would disagree. I would say that it is genetically human, but it is a human blastocyst, which IF it attaches to the uterus and IF it develops will become a human being at some point.

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#604551 - 08/24/06 10:32 PM Re: FDA Approval
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:

IF it attaches to the uterus and IF it develops will become a human being at some point.




When?

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#604552 - 08/24/06 10:36 PM Re: FDA Approval
Anonymous
Unregistered

I would say when it is viable. Others may disagree, as I'm sure you do.

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