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#619983 - 09/29/06 08:39 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Quote:

Well, as long as there's no expectation that mainstream Christian's need to speak out strongly against the activities of extremist factions.....




I have not read this entire thread, but have not seen any extremist, alarmist beliefs to speak out strongly against. I'll read the entire thread and see if I find any--BTW, the tummy ring post will not be one of them

Why don't you speak out strongly against the "leftist" organizations I listed above. Is it because they don't offend your sensibilities like religious organizations and GWB do?
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#619984 - 09/29/06 08:49 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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We believe in one God who is eternally existent in three persons--Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.

OK, nothing to speak out against.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, was buried, was resurrected, ascended into heaven, and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.

Still nothing to speak out "strongly" against.

We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and is our infallible guide of faith and conduct.

OH MY! That's a close call, but I'll still say nothing to speak out strongly against.

We believe man was created in the image of God, but fell into sin, which resulted in his spiritual death and separation from God. Only through regeneration by the Holy Spirit can salvation and spiritual life be obtained. This process of regeneration, referred to as being "born again" in the Word, takes place through a combination of faith and confession.

Hmmmmm! No, nothing here either.

We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.

So long as they are NOT talking about me because of the time I got lost in Memphis, I don't see anything to speak out strongly against.

We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart, and life.

SHOCKING!!!! But I still think I'll wait for something more alarming to speak out strongly against.

We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Blood? Yuck...icky. Speak out strongly? No, I don't think so.

We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in the Redemption.

Hmmm...faith healing...usually false...but I'm not going to speak out strongly yet.

We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the New Birth,

So long as they don't hold anyone under more than a minute, I won't speak out against Baptism. However, AML may only speak against them because they don't hold each other down long enough.

in speaking with tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.

Well, I don't really think tongues has a place here today, but I won't discount the possibility since it is listed in the Bible as a spiritual gift. No, I'm not going to "speak" out strongly against speaking in tongues (or spiritual gifting).

We believe in the Christian's hope, which is the soon coming personal return of Jesus Christ.

So long as they don't pretend to know when or all go out and buy matching Nikes, I'm not going to speak out strongly.
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#619985 - 09/29/06 09:06 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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This is from a documentary called Jesus Camp. My kids would not participate in something like this. It is strang. But I am not alarmed by it.

Quote:

One review by award-winning freelance writer Joanne Brokaw reports, "In what was the most disturbing and chilling scene of the documentary, a speaker talks candidly to the kids about abortion, explaining, 'One third of your friends could be here tonight but they never made it.' He challenges the kids to 'raise up a moral outcry and overturn abortion,' and by the end of the session these grade schoolers are in a shouting frenzy, pumping their fists in the air and parroting his call for 'Righteous judges! Righteous judges!'"




For those of you who are alarmed, I can assure you that this is not going on at conservative and evangelical Christian camps and vacation Bible schools around the nation. Worried about "Onward Christian Soldiers"? Don't be. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Ephesians 6:12. (In other words, it is a spiritual battle.)
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#619986 - 09/29/06 09:37 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
homestar Offline
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Quote:

This is from a documentary called Jesus Camp. My kids would not participate in something like this. It is strang. But I am not alarmed by it.




Note: This post is to Buddy Love, from one Christian to another. (Perhaps it should be a PM, but I want others to know that some evangelical Christians are willing to condemn the kind of foolishness described above. I feel obligated to say this, because there was a point in my life where I would have agreed with this kind of stupidity going on at meetings, but not any more.)

Buddy, I am not as alarmed as I am saddened by the lack of spiritual maturity evidenced by the ridiculous scene described above. I think this is something to be alarmed about, but not for the reason others here might think. The description of this scene is an good example of some of what is wrong with the current so-called "charismatic" or "pentecostal" churches in the United States, and to a lesser extent, in Australia and the UK, and other parts of the world.

These churches use Amway type tactics to whip up emotions and passions that the participants are taught to believe are a "move" of the Holy Spirit. These kinds of tactics at best are motivated through honest ignorance and at worst represent deliberate, outright deception.

I agree that not all charismatic/pentecostal churches take things to the extremes described at this camp, but I believe it is more prevelant than you might think.
Last edited by Homestar; 09/29/06 09:38 PM.
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#619987 - 09/29/06 09:50 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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I just can't understand why some of us can't be alarmed if we choose. Just as I didn't understand why some of us weren't allowed to be concerned about censorship in another thread. If you aren't alarmed that's your business, but why work so hard to make those of us bothered change our minds? Personally, I think this is happening more than anyone wants to admit. I'm allowed to believe that no matter how loudly someone tries to shout me down.
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#619988 - 09/29/06 10:27 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

This is from a documentary called Jesus Camp. My kids would not participate in something like this. It is strang. But I am not alarmed by it.




Note: This post is to Buddy Love, from one Christian to another. (Perhaps it should be a PM, but I want others to know that some evangelical Christians are willing to condemn the kind of foolishness described above. I feel obligated to say this, because there was a point in my life where I would have agreed with this kind of stupidity going on at meetings, but not any more.)

Buddy, I am not as alarmed as I am saddened by the lack of spiritual maturity evidenced by the ridiculous scene described above. I think this is something to be alarmed about, but not for the reason others here might think. The description of this scene is an good example of some of what is wrong with the current so-called "charismatic" or "pentecostal" churches in the United States, and to a lesser extent, in Australia and the UK, and other parts of the world.

These churches use Amway type tactics to whip up emotions and passions that the participants are taught to believe are a "move" of the Holy Spirit. These kinds of tactics at best are motivated through honest ignorance and at worst represent deliberate, outright deception.

I agree that not all charismatic/pentecostal churches take things to the extremes described at this camp, but I believe it is more prevelant than you might think.




I agree that it is sad, but the post asked if we should be alarmed and AML asked why the evangelical/conservative Christians are not speaking out strongly against it (although I don't think this had been revealed when he asked that question). Well, this certainly is the first thing that I've heard that would get me close to speaking out strongly against it. I would not do it. I would speak out strongly if anyone suggested doing this at my church. I would leave the church if the children's ministry at my church did this (not a chance is Hades, BTW). I just don't know if a church in my community were doing this if I would be so moved as to speak out strongly against it publicly or in person to that church. I am sure among my friends and family, I would speak out strongly against it. Alarmed? No. Strongly against it? Yes. Condemn it? I don't know.
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#619989 - 09/29/06 10:57 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
homestar Offline
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I just can't understand why some of us can't be alarmed if we choose. Just as I didn't understand why some of us weren't allowed to be concerned about censorship in another thread. If you aren't alarmed that's your business, but why work so hard to make those of us bothered change our minds? Personally, I think this is happening more than anyone wants to admit. I'm allowed to believe that no matter how loudly someone tries to shout me down.




I firmly believe you have the right to be alarmed about this if you wish, Michelle. I hope nothing I've said led you to believe I think you don't have this option.

But you do concede that others have the right to not be alarmed, don't you?

BTW, I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I'm not working at all to change your political or religious views and opinions.
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#619990 - 09/29/06 11:02 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I just can't understand why some of us can't be alarmed if we choose. Just as I didn't understand why some of us weren't allowed to be concerned about censorship in another thread. If you aren't alarmed that's your business, but why work so hard to make those of us bothered change our minds? Personally, I think this is happening more than anyone wants to admit. I'm allowed to believe that no matter how loudly someone tries to shout me down.




I firmly believe you have the right to be alarmed about this if you wish, Michelle. I hope nothing I've said led you to believe I think you don't have this option.

But you do concede that others have the right to not be alarmed, don't you?

BTW, I can't speak for anyone else, of course, but I'm not working at all to change your political or religious views and opinions.




I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.
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#619991 - 09/29/06 11:07 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
homestar Offline
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Quote:

I just don't know if a church in my community were doing this if I would be so moved as to speak out strongly against it publicly or in person to that church. I am sure among my friends and family, I would speak out strongly against it. Alarmed? No. Strongly against it? Yes. Condemn it? I don't know.




Buddy, I think I understand where you're coming from. It's the same position I've taken over the past several years in my own life, but I'm moving closer to the point where I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't be taking a stronger personal stand against this type of deception that has gotten out of hand in some circles.

I think the time has come to ask whether those Christians outside the "charismatic/pentecostal" fellowship shouldn't start addressing the cultish tendancies of the personalities who are so typically found in leadership positions in these churches and para-church organizations. I'm sick almost to point of actual nausea at what I see on television and hear on the radio. It can't be ignored forever.
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#619992 - 09/29/06 11:08 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
homestar Offline
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Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.
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#619993 - 09/29/06 11:22 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.




She's talking about me, but she is completely missing the boat. I love being challenged--it is stimulating. I love the teasing and sarcasm so long as it is not biting or cynical and is between two people who may disagree, but respect each other. I hate it only when the discussion moves from the topic to the person (like it is starting to here-again--sigh!). That is a form of shouting down.
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#619994 - 09/29/06 11:25 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.




She's talking about me, but she is completely missing the boat. I love being challenged--it is stimulating. I love the teasing and sarcasm so long as it is not biting or cynical and is between two people who may disagree, but respect each other. I hate it only when the discussion moves from the topic to the person (like it is starting to here-again--sigh!). That is a form of shouting down.




Once again. Not a personal attack. Get over it.
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#619995 - 09/29/06 11:25 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Posts: 555
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Quote:

Quote:

I just don't know if a church in my community were doing this if I would be so moved as to speak out strongly against it publicly or in person to that church. I am sure among my friends and family, I would speak out strongly against it. Alarmed? No. Strongly against it? Yes. Condemn it? I don't know.




Buddy, I think I understand where you're coming from. It's the same position I've taken over the past several years in my own life, but I'm moving closer to the point where I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't be taking a stronger personal stand against this type of deception that has gotten out of hand in some circles.

I think the time has come to ask whether those Christians outside the "charismatic/pentecostal" fellowship shouldn't start addressing the cultish tendancies of the personalities who are so typically found in leadership positions in these churches and para-church organizations. I'm sick almost to point of actual nausea at what I see on television and hear on the radio. It can't be ignored forever.




The more I think about it, the more I think I would condemn this political indoctrination of children on abortion or any issue. But don't think I have not seen children here is Austin being dragged, sign in hand, to political rallies on both sides of the spectrum. I think it is sad to use children at these rallies, regardless of the side of the issue.

Yes, the Camp Jesus indoctrination does get my ire. However, I am not sure I saw anything else to get alarmed about. I certainly would condemn worshipping or praying to any man or woman--if that is what they were doing. If the kids were merely praying for GWB, it is creepy (and suspect) that they'd have a picture to do it before.
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#619996 - 09/29/06 11:29 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.




She's talking about me, but she is completely missing the boat. I love being challenged--it is stimulating. I love the teasing and sarcasm so long as it is not biting or cynical and is between two people who may disagree, but respect each other. I hate it only when the discussion moves from the topic to the person (like it is starting to here-again--sigh!). That is a form of shouting down.




Once again. Not a personal attack. Get over it.




If you think I have shouted you down or not allowed you to have an opinion or tried to change your mind, please direct me to the post where I did that and I will consider deleting it if I agree that it was inappropriate. Heck, instead, send my offending posts to another user and have them PM me if they agree that any post of mine did any of these things. I'll delete the post if they agree with you. (I really mean that.)
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#619997 - 09/29/06 11:36 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.




She's talking about me, but she is completely missing the boat. I love being challenged--it is stimulating. I love the teasing and sarcasm so long as it is not biting or cynical and is between two people who may disagree, but respect each other. I hate it only when the discussion moves from the topic to the person (like it is starting to here-again--sigh!). That is a form of shouting down.




Once again. Not a personal attack. Get over it.




If you think I have shouted you down or not allowed you to have an opinion or tried to change your mind, please direct me to the post where I did that and I will consider deleting it if I agree that it was inappropriate. Heck, instead, send my offending posts to another user and have them PM me if they agree that any post of mine did any of these things. I'll delete the post if they agree with you. (I really mean that.)




You sure don't understand what ignore means. When I ignore someone I really do it. I don't read the posts, I don't address any comments to them, I actually ignore them. Your ego won't allow that. Also, it's rather disingenuous to ask me to point to posts you know you have already deleted. I don't believe you have any honor or sincerity so you saying you really mean something doesn't move me at all. Now just go back to posting ultra-long posts and/or three or four posts in a row so that everyone who was enagaged in the discussion leaves.
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#619998 - 09/29/06 11:50 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I wasn't referring to your post. I made a general post to preserve the peace with someone who can't stand being challenged. Each of us has the right to be/not be alarmed as we see fit.




OK. Thanks for the clarification.




She's talking about me, but she is completely missing the boat. I love being challenged--it is stimulating. I love the teasing and sarcasm so long as it is not biting or cynical and is between two people who may disagree, but respect each other. I hate it only when the discussion moves from the topic to the person (like it is starting to here-again--sigh!). That is a form of shouting down.




Once again. Not a personal attack. Get over it.




If you think I have shouted you down or not allowed you to have an opinion or tried to change your mind, please direct me to the post where I did that and I will consider deleting it if I agree that it was inappropriate. Heck, instead, send my offending posts to another user and have them PM me if they agree that any post of mine did any of these things. I'll delete the post if they agree with you. (I really mean that.)




You sure don't understand what ignore means. When I ignore someone I really do it. I don't read the posts, I don't address any comments to them, I actually ignore them. Your ego won't allow that. Also, it's rather disingenuous to ask me to point to posts you know you have already deleted. I don't believe you have any honor or sincerity so you saying you really mean something doesn't move me at all. Now just go back to posting ultra-long posts and/or three or four posts in a row so that everyone who was enagaged in the discussion leaves.




If my posts bother you so much, why don't you please, please, please ignore me. If my ego won't allow me to ignore you; what is it that compels you to read my posts?

P.S. No, the posts weren't deleted. The posts you were referring to in your above post clearly were about posts in this thread and in the banned book thread. I have not deleted a single post in either thread. Please show me the offending posts--if I really am shouting people down and not allowing them to hold their own opinions, I should stop doing it. Thanks.
Last edited by Buddy Love; 09/29/06 11:51 PM.
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#619999 - 09/29/06 11:52 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
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Quote:

If my posts bother you so much, why don't you please, please, please ignore me. If my ego won't allow me to ignore you; what is it that compels you to read my posts?

P.S. No, the posts weren't deleted. The posts you were referring to in your above post clearly were about posts in this thread and in the banned book thread. I have not deleted a single post in either thread. Please show me the offending posts--if I really am shouting people down and not allowing them to hold their own opinions, I should stop doing it. Thanks.




I thought you were ignoring me.
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#620000 - 09/29/06 11:57 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Buddy Love Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555
Texas
Quote:

Quote:

If my posts bother you so much, why don't you please, please, please ignore me. If my ego won't allow me to ignore you; what is it that compels you to read my posts?

P.S. No, the posts weren't deleted. The posts you were referring to in your above post clearly were about posts in this thread and in the banned book thread. I have not deleted a single post in either thread. Please show me the offending posts--if I really am shouting people down and not allowing them to hold their own opinions, I should stop doing it. Thanks.




I thought you were ignoring me.




I was, but dang it, Homestar quoted your post and it was another negative post obviously about me. I'll try to do better.
Last edited by Buddy Love; 09/30/06 02:31 AM.
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#620001 - 09/29/06 11:59 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
MichelleDawn Offline
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MichelleDawn
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,994
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If my posts bother you so much, why don't you please, please, please ignore me. If my ego won't allow me to ignore you; what is it that compels you to read my posts?

P.S. No, the posts weren't deleted. The posts you were referring to in your above post clearly were about posts in this thread and in the banned book thread. I have not deleted a single post in either thread. Please show me the offending posts--if I really am shouting people down and not allowing them to hold their own opinions, I should stop doing it. Thanks.




I thought you were ignoring me.




I was, but dang it, Homestar quoted your post and it was another negative post about me. I'll try to do better.




It wasn't a negative post about you. I thought you were ignoring me.
Last edited by Sweetpeas; 09/30/06 12:00 AM.
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#620002 - 09/30/06 11:24 AM Re: Should we be alarmed?
pjs Offline
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oHiO
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

If my posts bother you so much, why don't you please, please, please ignore me. If my ego won't allow me to ignore you; what is it that compels you to read my posts?

P.S. No, the posts weren't deleted. The posts you were referring to in your above post clearly were about posts in this thread and in the banned book thread. I have not deleted a single post in either thread. Please show me the offending posts--if I really am shouting people down and not allowing them to hold their own opinions, I should stop doing it. Thanks.




I thought you were ignoring me.




I was, but dang it, Homestar quoted your post and it was another negative post about me. I'll try to do better.




It wasn't a negative post about you. I thought you were ignoring me.




Why don't you two admit that you love each other!

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#620003 - 09/30/06 03:09 PM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Gregk Offline
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The Dark Side of the Moon
Quote:

Why don't you two admit that you love each other!




Isn't it great to see love blossom on BOL?
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#620004 - 10/02/06 11:50 AM Re: Should we be alarmed?
Retired DQ Offline
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I think that we should lock them in a room together to work out their issues...
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