have you missed the posts here from people who came from 1-parent families?

Some days I can't believe this is actually 2006.

Nanwa, it's great that you made such a mature decision. We need more in society who effectively chose to devote their time to resonable causes (and having children, only to have them raised by others doesn't always fall into this good-decision catagory, IMO). And like SarahH said, both parties need to be responsible with their behavior.

Personally, I never wanted to have children and don't see anywhere for children in my life (aside from nieces and nephews). I wonder why anyone would want to have children. So, while I advocate well-concidered choices in including children in their lives (or not), I also accept that the American "family" has changed. It's not all good; it's not all bad. It's what makes this a great country: women can take a job, own property, vote...and have children without ever being with a man. Like it or not, it's these women who liberate future generations of women from rigid gender role-playing.

For some people, it isn't...

No, I haven't. But are you honestly trying to tell me that having two people working to financially/emotionally support a family isn't better than having one person working to finalcially/emotionally support a family?

Also, it occures to me that the children of single parent that ended up "funky" (as I think dip phrased it), probably aren't posting on BOL.

To risk interrupting a good discussion of the "perfect" family... Since when did being over 20 constitute a person as an "older woman"??

when i was younger i played on a team with keith chul weaver. his dad was a doctor and his mom was a housewife. they were god-fearing.

keith murdered his parents and his sister and then raped his cousin.

i can give you more eerily similar examples from lancaster county PA... LANCASTER, PA. puritantical amish country!

That's a good question. I wonder what is the "perfect" age to start giving birth.

for ME? yes. but that's just ME. if there were a bunch of Ron clones walking around, the world would be a very boring (albeit good-looking ) place.

do you know how many "funky" people come from 'pleasantville' households?

I think this is meant to mean that they're not "teen mothers."

I believe that "role models" are the key here. Like some of you have already said. Just because a male contributes to the making of the child, that does not instantly label him role model, nor does it automatically make two-parent households better than a one-parent household. (Notice I said automatically...)

I would like to share a conversation I had with my 10 year-old just last night. He asked me with tears in his eyes "Mom, you mean you really don't consider your dad to be your dad?" And I told him no. I explained that why would I, when we would get into trouble if we did not agree to hand him another beer while we were in the car with him (he was driving of course), he showed up drunk to my oldest sister's wedding and did/could not walk her down the aisle, didn't have the courtesy to show up at my youngest sister's graduation, he never remembered any of his children's birthdays, nor had he ever bought any of us a Christmas present... the list goes on and on. By the time I was done explaining this to him, he had a huge smile on his face and said, "Nevermind! I don't blame you. I wouldn't call him "dad" either!".

My sister and I had no role models except for him, because my mother chose to be alone and dedicate her life to my sister and I while we were growing up. Role models other than my biological father would have made all the difference in the world.

Sorry it is so wordy. But I just wanted to share that.

A friend of mine was a principal of a high school in the St. Francis Creek area, near Milwaukee. He saw in his students the generational continuation of unwed teen mothers. He would have a problem with a student, he would call to speak to the mom. Mom wasn't home; working one of her two jobs to make ends meet; no time for an education to get a better job. Grandma would answer his call. She was there looking after the kids, but she was too burnt out from working to raise her own kids, that there was nothing she could do to control the current problem child. Sure, these moms worked hard to support their kids. But, somehow, the kids never got the message that they could work for something better.

Sure, I've had the pleasure of knowing a couple. In fact, one of the best parts of graduating from college was getting away from a psychotically evil product of a two parent household (who I will hopefully never ever have to see again). There are a lot of factors that determines what kind of aduld a child will grow into.
But what I'm saying that in general (not just for you, or for me) two parents are better than one.

nanwa, if you'd like, i can continue to bring out examples of horrid brats raised by "pleasantville" parents and model adults raised by single parents. do you see where i am going with this?

Yes, you are describing your childhood. Sorry you hated your pleasentville parents.

better she should stay home and collect assistance?

but since this isnt utopia, can we force people to act a certain way when there is clear evidence that this way doesn't have a direct correlation to fixing society's ills?

i'm sorry you think i am horrid.

i had the antithesis of a pleasantville upbringing.

We can't and shouldn't force people, but don't we have an obligation to encourage it?

encourage something that isn't necessarily the answer? keith chul weaver?

Ron sweetie, I never said anything about forcing people to act a certain way. I am just saying the reason this isn't utopia is because of these choices that have been made and have become acceptable in society. There is a direct correlation between the increased problems we have, crime, ADD kids, anger mismanagment and shootings in the schools, and the demise of the nuclear family unit. I won't quote you statistics, because I read in another thread that you don't give much credence to them. But this has come in the span of two generations, so I guess we screwed up in raising our kids.

I blame Dr. Spock!

Dare I say that Keanu Reeves' character in the movie "Parenthood" summed it up quite well when he said (paraphrased) "You have to have a license to drive a car, you even have to have a license to catch a fish, but they will let any [expletive deleted] be a parent."

The point/problem is everybody has the right to be a parent, but not everyone has the means or responsibility.

This seems to be the main issue regardless of the topic. Half the country believes everyone should live their lives according to an ideal, the rest of us are normal

Some people are Bad. They kill people. Some had two parents..some did not. So does this give us the excuse to just throw our hands up and say "Its a crap shoot anyway so I will just do what I want".

How about we TRY REAL HARD to do everything we can to put our children first... and if they turn out rotten, at least we can say we did our best.

This is how I raise my children. I have ZERO guarantee that they will not get hit by a car, but I will do my BEST to let them know that running in the street is NOT OK and the proper way to cross the street. I have zero guarantee that they will not land in jail, but its my job to teach them right from wrong (Based on Federa/Local law and my religious beliefs), then let the chips fall where they may.

When you have children you have an obligations period. Working 60 hours a week does not mean your parenting (how can you parent if you dont see your kids when they are awake?)...and I can tell you any parent would rather be home with their children than working.

Not necessarily the right, but the ABILITY. Kids who don't have the right to vote, or the right to a drivers' license can become a parent.