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#714803 - 04/11/07 06:22 PM Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran
Pale Rider Offline
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under the Lone Star
Syria and Iran are lead by unsavory characters who deny the Holocaust, but we must have dialogue. Lantos (a holocaust survivor) said the democrats have their own foreign policy while Speaker of the State Pelosi contradicted that and said their message to Syria was identical to that of Bush, but then today said he has no Middle East policy.

Regardless, the democrats turned down the request to speak with Bush on funding the troups, but we must have dialogue with Syria and Iran. Well, after the stunning success with Syria, they need to visit North Korea subsequent to Iran.
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#714808 - 04/11/07 06:26 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Pale Rider
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Gotta love that house leadership. Peace through weakness.
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#714816 - 04/11/07 06:30 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: AMLFella
Gotta love that house leadership. Peace through weakness.


It is not peace through weakness.
It is attempts at peace through attempted diplomacy.
US lawmakers ready to visit Iran after Syria trip

Gosh...does anyone besides me that peace through superior firepower, aka the Reagan doctrine, isn't peace? It is fear...

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#714823 - 04/11/07 06:37 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
TheManofSteel Offline
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Originally Posted By: AMLFella
Gotta love that house leadership. Peace through weakness.


It is not peace through weakness.
It is attempts at peace through attempted diplomacy.
US lawmakers ready to visit Iran after Syria trip

Gosh...does anyone besides me that peace through superior firepower, aka the Reagan doctrine, isn't peace? It is fear...


While they arm and train insurgents in Iraq, resulting in bodybags or maimed U.S. Servicemen coming back to the U.S.? Why does it always have to be the U.S. that bends over and says "please hit me in the xxxx" while we try to have a mutual understanding? They violate the Geneva Convention, kill U.S. Servicemen in a conflict that does not involve them, make threats to annihilate a sovereign nation, and seek to develop the means to do so. The Speaker of the State (I love that one Pale)is employing the Jimmy Carter and Neville Chamberlin doctrine, both of which historically failed.
Last edited by AMLFella; 04/11/07 06:37 PM.
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#714826 - 04/11/07 06:39 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
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Reagan bankrupting the Soviet Union was one of the single most important accomplishments of the 20th century, the threat of assured mutual destruction was overcome by that peace through superior firepower
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#714842 - 04/11/07 06:48 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Pale Rider
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Right Pale...
Because Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika had nothing to do with it.
It was all b/c of Saint Ronald Reagan.

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#714846 - 04/11/07 06:48 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran TheManofSteel
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I can't think of a time when isolation really worked. Our Cuba policy has largely failed, in my opinion. That said, the U.S. government should have one policy voice, and that's the president.

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#714848 - 04/11/07 06:50 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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I agree grmasterb.
There shouldn't rouge leaders conducting their own foreign policy.
BUT...on the larger scale...we can't just go around threatening to cut other countries off or to blow them up...

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#714853 - 04/11/07 06:53 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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Originally Posted By: grmasterb
I can't think of a time when isolation really worked. Our Cuba policy has largely failed, in my opinion. That said, the U.S. government should have one policy voice, and that's the president.


It worked in South Africa, Grm, but admittedly, it took many nations persevering for many years. It takes alot of resolve; to borrow a line from the movie "Siege" -"He who is most committed, wins."

But I agree, the thing that urks me most is the lack of a unified voice these trip give the impression of. Establiashing relations can work, in so far as we practice the concept of "keep your friends close and your enemies closer."
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#714856 - 04/11/07 06:54 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Right Pale...
Because Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika had nothing to do with it.
It was all b/c of Saint Ronald Reagan.



Right Neo, and U.S. Policy and Saint Ronald had nothing to do with influencing the eventual shift that became known as perestroika.
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#714857 - 04/11/07 06:54 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
Pale Rider Offline
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Right Pale...
Because Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika had nothing to do with it.
It was all b/c of Saint Ronald Reagan.



I recall an earlier Soviet leader:
Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev famously used an expression generally translated into English as "We will bury you!" ("Мы вас похороним!", transliterated as My vas pokhoronim!) while addressing Western ambassadors at reception in Moscow in November, 1956.[
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.


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#714858 - 04/11/07 06:54 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
grmasterb Offline
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
I agree grmasterb.
There shouldn't rouge leaders conducting their own foreign policy.
BUT...on the larger scale...we can't just go around threatening to cut other countries off or to blow them up...


I agree we shouldn't completely cut off dialogue, but I don't believe the Bushies go around recklessly theatening to blow up other countries. Certainly we never take military options off of the table. You always want to keep the other side guessing about that sort of thing. Iraq, as I see it, was a tactical decision that blew up in their faces.

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#714859 - 04/11/07 06:56 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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Originally Posted By: grmasterb
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
I agree grmasterb.
There shouldn't rouge leaders conducting their own foreign policy.
BUT...on the larger scale...we can't just go around threatening to cut other countries off or to blow them up...


I agree we shouldn't completely cut off dialogue, but I don't believe the Bushies go around recklessly theatening to blow up other countries. Certainly we never take military options off of the table. You always want to keep the other side guessing about that sort of thing. Iraq, as I see it, was a tactical decision that blew up in their faces.

A good bit of which is due to mismanagement on the part of the Bush Admin and his generals.
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#714861 - 04/11/07 06:56 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: AMLFella

It worked in South Africa


Good one. You got me there.

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#714910 - 04/11/07 07:39 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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Evil people like Chris Wallace of Fox News need to be isolated. Misunderstood folk like the genocide-baiting Ahmadinejad need to be engaged. Ok, got it.

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#714913 - 04/11/07 07:45 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Right Pale...
Because Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika had nothing to do with it.
It was all b/c of Saint Ronald Reagan.



I recall an earlier Soviet leader:
Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev famously used an expression generally translated into English as "We will bury you!" ("Мы вас похороним!", transliterated as My vas pokhoronim!) while addressing Western ambassadors at reception in Moscow in November, 1956.[


But when the USSR fell...it was due in part to perestroika and in part to Reagan...

No one person or thing was responsible...

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#714934 - 04/11/07 07:58 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: -J-
Evil people like Chris Wallace of Fox News need to be isolated. Misunderstood folk like the genocide-baiting Ahmadinejad need to be engaged. Ok, got it.


When have I ever called Chris Wallace "evil" or said he should be "isolated"?

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#714935 - 04/11/07 07:59 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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-J- must be in one of his "Liberals hate America" moods...

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#714944 - 04/11/07 08:04 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: -J-
Evil people like Chris Wallace of Fox News need to be isolated. Misunderstood folk like the genocide-baiting Ahmadinejad need to be engaged. Ok, got it.


-J- , Grm is not a libby, nor is he a conservative. He is among that group in the middle, watching all of us conservatives and liberals fire shots at oneanother. He is also one who proudly served the country during the Gulf War as a soldier.(Sorry to speak of you in the 3rd person Grm, not that you need me to defend you ;)).
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#715007 - 04/11/07 08:51 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Right Pale...
Because Mikhail Gorbachev and perestroika had nothing to do with it.
It was all b/c of Saint Ronald Reagan.



Why do you think Gorbachev tried perestroika?

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#715013 - 04/11/07 08:59 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran straw
doubledown21 Offline
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Gorbaechov tried perestroika because the country's economic infrastructure was in shambles due to 50 years of arms race and the Communist leadership was too corrupt to do anything about it. All Reagan did was give a push to an already collapsing economy. He gets way too much credit for bringing down the Soviets.

If any one man could be called responsible it has got to be John Paul II, for supporting the workers in Poland. This led to changes all throughout the Eastern bloc, which ultimately led in the Baltic states withdrawing from the Soviet Union, and the entire country falling apart.

And just as an interesting aside, the majority of people living in the former Soviet Union despise Gorbachev, particularly the older people who lost their pensions. He's not the hero to them that we often make him out to be.

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#715017 - 04/11/07 09:05 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran doubledown21
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Originally Posted By: doubledown21
Gorbaechov tried perestroika because the country's economic infrastructure was in shambles due to 50 years of arms race and the Communist leadership was too corrupt to do anything about it. All Reagan did was give a push to an already collapsing economy. He gets way too much credit for bringing down the Soviets.

If any one man could be called responsible it has got to be John Paul II, for supporting the workers in Poland. This led to changes all throughout the Eastern bloc, which ultimately led in the Baltic states withdrawing from the Soviet Union, and the entire country falling apart.

And just as an interesting aside, the majority of people living in the former Soviet Union despise Gorbachev, particularly the older people who lost their pensions. He's not the hero to them that we often make him out to be.


And didn't Reagan's arms build up put that much more pressure on the Soviet system?

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#715022 - 04/11/07 09:14 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran grmasterb
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Originally Posted By: grmasterb
When have I ever called Chris Wallace "evil" or said he should be "isolated"?


My response was to the topic of the thread in general, not to you specifically. You just happened to have been the latest post at the time I replied. Sorry for any confusion.

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#715025 - 04/11/07 09:22 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Jokerman
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Regan did not single handedly topple the soviets. Yet, without him, it probably would not have happened so quickly. In fact, without him, it would Russia would likely still be the USSR. So, go ahead and claim Regan did next to nothing. But the man understood how to use economics. Which, I believe is the US's most powerful weopon.
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#715028 - 04/11/07 09:23 PM Re: Pelosi and Lantos may go to Iran Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By: Some Guy
Regan did not single handedly topple the soviets. Yet, without him, it probably would not have happened so quickly. In fact, without him, it would Russia would likely still be the USSR. So, go ahead and claim Regan did next to nothing. But the man understood how to use economics. Which, I believe is the US's most powerful weopon.


When have I ever said Reagan did next to nothing???!!!


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