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#721404 - 04/25/07 01:07 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran TheManofSteel
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sarcasm is lost on you, amlf.

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#721797 - 04/25/07 06:02 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
What is the interest of the other party? To establish Islamic-based regimes world-wide and dispense with all other religions; to annihilate the nation of Israel; to wipe out our distorted satanic western ideals of liberty, such as woman enjoy here that they do not in nations under Sharia

man, you've got them pegged! although it seems glib, this is completely accurate.


Did England and France fail by not negotiating with Hitler prior to WWII?

Was there a negotiable solution available regarding Hitler?

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#721801 - 04/25/07 06:03 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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straw, what does that have to do with the "interests" of iran? (straw, you have an incredible bias on this subject)

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#721807 - 04/25/07 06:05 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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I am trying to determine if you believe any issue can be resolved through negotiation or if there are times, however few, that no negotiation is possible.

By the way, I have an opinion, as do you.

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#721814 - 04/25/07 06:08 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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yeah straw they said they wanted to wipe the jews of the face of the earth and they said the holocaust didn't happen. you'll show them!

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#721822 - 04/25/07 06:12 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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Negotiation is always desirable, but not always feasible.

But, negotiation is a discussion intended to produce an agreement.
Appeasement is the policy of granting concessions to potential enemies to maintain peace.

During the Cold War, were we appeasing the Soviets with the SALT treaty? Or Nixon's détente ?

Based on the argument of some here, you'd convict Nixon as guilty of treason.



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#721823 - 04/25/07 06:12 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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I notice you still haven't answered the question I posed though.

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#721826 - 04/25/07 06:14 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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straw, do we just invade now? well, we can't feasibly invade so let's just turn iran into a parking lot.

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#721849 - 04/25/07 06:25 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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So you can't answer whether there are times a negotiated settlement is impossible?

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#721853 - 04/25/07 06:26 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Man, I really wish our more hawkish (or "realist") elements would come up with something a little more up-to-date and sophisticated than "What about Chamberlain! And Hitler! Appeaser! LOL!" That kind of lazy rhetorical shortcut is really beginning to bug me. It's not even a response to the current situation under discussion. It's just a way of totally ignoring the particulars and the differences and going straight to "Talking to the enemy leads straight to a world war." I'm relatively certain that few hostile nations today are exact duplicates of 1930s Germany.

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#721855 - 04/25/07 06:26 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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I did...if anyone cares...

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#721863 - 04/25/07 06:28 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran RandomName
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No they are not, but there are times when negotiations are impossible or have failed.

I have asked several times in this thread and another why have we been unable to reach an agreement after TWO years of European and Iranian negotiations.

The answer so far has not been forthcoming.

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#721864 - 04/25/07 06:29 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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I answered with more questions in the other thread Straw.

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#721867 - 04/25/07 06:29 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Negotiation is always desirable, but not always feasible.

But, negotiation is a discussion intended to produce an agreement.
Appeasement is the policy of granting concessions to potential enemies to maintain peace.

During the Cold War, were we appeasing the Soviets with the SALT treaty? Or Nixon's détente ?

Based on the argument of some here, you'd convict Nixon as guilty of treason.




Sorry, didn't see this. So after TWO years, we continue; is there a deadline to end the talks or do they continue ad infinitum?

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#721869 - 04/25/07 06:30 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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straw...WE are not doing anything.
If WE view Iran as a threat, WE must engage them.
Not leave it to Europe.

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#721878 - 04/25/07 06:33 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Imagine
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Quote:
If WE view Iran as a threat, WE must engage them.
Not leave it to Europe.

that's how i feel, too. it's like iran thinks "who cares what you europeans think! the americans are the big fish. and they are acting like we don't even exist." it's a lot like a child acting out until they get the attention that they want.

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#721880 - 04/25/07 06:34 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Ok, I hear you, but do you think we would get a deal the Europeans can't.

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#721882 - 04/25/07 06:35 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
If WE view Iran as a threat, WE must engage them.
Not leave it to Europe.

that's how i feel, too. it's like iran thinks "who cares what you europeans think! the americans are the big fish. and they are acting like we don't even exist." it's a lot like a child acting out until they get the attention that they want.



Ron is right. When your child acts up, do you always spank him/her or smack him/her around? Or do you sometimes send them to their room without dinner?

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#721886 - 04/25/07 06:36 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
Ok, I hear you, but do you think we would get a deal the Europeans can't.


Yes...
Ahmandinejad wants US involvement.
Maybe he needs economic support...and maybe he'd be willing to give up a few things in order to get it...
BUT we won't know until a US representative meets with him...

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#721893 - 04/25/07 06:40 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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Originally Posted By: straw


Sorry, didn't see this. So after TWO years, we continue; is there a deadline to end the talks or do they continue ad infinitum?


Do you *really* want to use this line of reasoning? It changes so easily into "So after FOUR years (of military intervention), is there a deadline to end this, or does it continue ad infinitum?"

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#721896 - 04/25/07 06:43 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
Ok, I hear you, but do you think we would get a deal the Europeans can't.

i think an acknowledgment of their legitimacy could go a long way.

listen, if they won't budge, we really don't have a choice. but since the powers that be decided that they wanted their war in what i viewed as the least of the 3 evils, our "choices" are also limited. and when we lash out, what are the reprecussions?

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#721990 - 04/25/07 07:59 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
straw, you have an incredible bias on this subject...they said they wanted to wipe the jews of the face of the earth and they said the holocaust didn't happen. you'll show them!


What are you referring to, Ron?

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#721995 - 04/25/07 08:04 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Jokerman
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retribution.

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#722055 - 04/25/07 09:00 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Hated By Some
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Retribution for what?

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#722098 - 04/25/07 10:29 PM Re: It All May Have Backfired on Iran Jokerman
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for the things that they've said and the intentions in their heart. not everybody is a cold, calculating, emotionless robot like you are, j.

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