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#716748 - 04/16/07 03:14 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
TheManofSteel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico


fred thompson, eh? the next "reagan"?


sing with me conservatives! i need a he-ro! i'm holding out for at hero 'till the end of the night. he's gotta be strong. and he's gotta be fast and he's gotta be fresh from the fight


Ron, I did not know you could be so sentimental
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#716774 - 04/16/07 03:42 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
Pale Rider Offline
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OK, back to global warming. Here is an analogy I heard this morning:

Our auto (this globe we call earth) is got obvious engine and transmission problems. Our car's engine and tranny are the sun and water vapor. Neither of which we have much control over.

But we need to do something, so we spend huge amounts of resources replacing one of the six lug nuts on the right rear wheel, which in our analogy is human produced CO2.

This sums up my concerns about the sheer panic folks like Al Gore have us dealing with.
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#716775 - 04/16/07 03:46 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
Pale Rider Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
the liberals have no problem taxing to death

huh? how is making taxation fair to the middle class taxing everyone to death?


Oh man, don't start on taxes. I really am a middle class guy from a blue collar family and my all in tax rate is approaching 50% Ron. How much more can the middle class pay?
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#716776 - 04/16/07 03:46 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Pale Rider
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Pale:
Which scholar provided that analogy?

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#716780 - 04/16/07 03:50 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Pale:
Which scholar provided that analogy?


Professor Tim Ball, Department of Climatology, University of Winnipeg.

Remember, never ask a question you don't know the answer to as you might not like the answer that you are given. You will hear that when you get to law school.
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#716784 - 04/16/07 03:52 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
the liberals have no problem taxing to death

huh? how is making taxation fair to the middle class taxing everyone to death?


Oh man, don't start on taxes. I really am a middle class guy from a blue collar family and my all in tax rate is approaching 50% Ron. How much more can the middle class pay?

that's exactly my point!!! the middle class should NOT be bearing this burden when there are countless tax loopholes and cuts for the rich. i'm saying that you shouldn't be paying that much!

what REALLY needs to happen is controlling gov't SPENDING first, then adjust the taxation second. and this doesn't mean cutting back on healthcare, welfare (though some better supervision is needed) or social security. it means ENOUGH WITH THE EARMARKS!!!

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#716785 - 04/16/07 03:53 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Pale Rider
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I wanted to know the answer.
B/c I wanted to honestly know who said it.

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#716790 - 04/16/07 03:57 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
OK, back to global warming. Here is an analogy I heard this morning:

Our auto (this globe we call earth) is got obvious engine and transmission problems. Our car's engine and tranny are the sun and water vapor. Neither of which we have much control over.

But we need to do something, so we spend huge amounts of resources replacing one of the six lug nuts on the right rear wheel, which in our analogy is human produced CO2.

This sums up my concerns about the sheer panic folks like Al Gore have us dealing with.

i'm more concerned with pollution in general, over-fishing, lack of recycling and fossil fuel dependence. why can't we use nuke power/wind power more? why not have solar "communities" so that the economies of scale can make it affordable? stuff like that.

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#716799 - 04/16/07 04:08 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
Pale Rider Offline
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Can I hear an "Amen"

Amen!!!!!
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#716800 - 04/16/07 04:10 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
TheManofSteel Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
OK, back to global warming. Here is an analogy I heard this morning:

Our auto (this globe we call earth) is got obvious engine and transmission problems. Our car's engine and tranny are the sun and water vapor. Neither of which we have much control over.

But we need to do something, so we spend huge amounts of resources replacing one of the six lug nuts on the right rear wheel, which in our analogy is human produced CO2.

This sums up my concerns about the sheer panic folks like Al Gore have us dealing with.

i'm more concerned with pollution in general, over-fishing, lack of recycling and fossil fuel dependence. why can't we use nuke power/wind power more? why not have solar "communities" so that the economies of scale can make it affordable? stuff like that.

Some of whay you mentioned has been in practice and is continuing, but it's in the infant stages. The majority of fishermen I know of practice catch-and-release. Communities throughout the country engage in recycling. Obviously, the trend, albeit ever-so-slow, is toward non-fossil fuel, but that cannot be wrought overnight. There are conservation groups and foundations all over, and the use of television media is helping with this (Discovery Channel, Science Channel, Animal Planet). There are now alot of replanting of trees taking place, esp. in Canada, where over2 million have been replanted up to 2004, and of course, the U.S. and Canada are now practicing controlled forest fires to make up for the unhealthy preventative measures that were taken to stop the natural forest fires that nature provides to recycle the forest environments.

If you state that not enough of what I mentioned is being done, I agree, but as I stated, many of these are in infancy stages, and are slowly cathcing fire. I cannot speak for the entire country, but I know in the northeast, we are much more environemntally conscious as communities go. Littering, for example, is very much looked down upon... The paradigm is changing, but I just want to be spared the unsubstantiated extremist versions of it.
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#716802 - 04/16/07 04:14 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore TheManofSteel
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i don't think enough is being done. corps and consumers are dragging their feet too much.

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#716875 - 04/16/07 06:12 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
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Too bad we don't have centralized economic planning to kick those consumers and corporations in to gear.

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#716965 - 04/16/07 07:33 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: -J-
Too bad we don't have centralized economic planning to kick those consumers and corporations in to gear.


Yeah, the old soviet style planning committees would set the record straight for those corporations and consumers. Bring on Stalinism!!!!
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#716968 - 04/16/07 07:35 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore TheManofSteel
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Way, way south.
Ron, you have stated before that you are a socialist, right?

His response shouldn't surprise anyone.

Not being rude or degrading, just stating facts.
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#716970 - 04/16/07 07:37 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore MB Guy
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I think I remember him saying that he's "part socialist" - though I don't recall ever being able to pin him down on what part.

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#716999 - 04/16/07 08:04 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
i'm more concerned with pollution in general, over-fishing, lack of recycling and fossil fuel dependence. why can't we use nuke power/wind power more? why not have solar "communities" so that the economies of scale can make it affordable? stuff like that.


1. Pollution: Here's a solution... Don't pollute! Bring back the old owl commercials "Give a hoot, don't pollute!". Don't waste tax dollars on programs that don't affect anything. Do your part, encourage your family, friends, and neighbors to do their part. Don't try to force them, because it won't work.

2. Over-fishing? Would you care to elaborate? Are you talking about people fishing and not eating what they catch or releasing it? Or are you referring to the fact that people like to eat sea bass, so they fish for a lot of sea bass because restaurants sell it. Simple solution? Eat tilapia. Allow supply and demand to take care of the problem, because as there are fewer fish, the price goes up. If there are no more sea bass, is that really so bad? We'll find something else to eat, and if they are gone, other fish will take their place.

3. Lack of recycling? Ok, here's the deal. Once again, do your part. Buy recycled stuff. Recycle your stuff. Don't regulate it and tell me to recycle mine. It costs more than it is worth. Want to do more? Encourage your family, friends, and neighbors to recycle. Want to do even more? For the low low price of $10 a month, I'll start recycling. Yup, you pay the fee for me to have my paper and plastic recycled, and I'll do it. Until it is economically feasible, however, I am not going to pay someone extra money to keep their landfill from filling up a little faster.

4. Nuke Power? Wow, and where is your outrage at the devastation of Three Mile Island? Chernobyl? NRX? EBR-I? Chapelcross? Don't you think the potential for environmental hazards from meltdowns etc. are just as great a risk as burning coal?

5. Why not have solar communities? Because solar power is more expensive, less reliable, and the people who could afford to live in such a community don't want to waste money on something that isn't efficient.

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#717019 - 04/16/07 08:32 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore B_F
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Bf your #2 may be the least responsible thing you have ever typed. I hope I am misreading your suggestion of causing extinction being OK. The species in question would be Atlantic Cod btw. the fisheries of the NE coast of shown enormous population decreases in recent years.

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#717044 - 04/16/07 09:03 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore XODUS
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Originally Posted By: XODUS
Bf your #2 may be the least responsible thing you have ever typed. I hope I am misreading your suggestion of causing extinction being OK. The species in question would be Atlantic Cod btw. the fisheries of the NE coast of shown enormous population decreases in recent years.


What is so bad about causing extinction? Please, do tell me one thing the Atlantic Cod does that no other fish does?

As for the "enormous population decrease", that's what supply and demand is all about. Farm raised cod and tilapia will become more affordable and thus served/purchased more long before the atlantic cod is extinct.

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#717050 - 04/16/07 09:09 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore B_F
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it's not that no other fish does it, it is that no other fish does it to that capacity in that particular ecosystem. And no other fish don't just move in and fill up the population gap when the cod is gone. I read a paper once theorizing "what if there were no mosquitos?" human extinction was the result. granted there were some slippery conclusions but still, take cattle out and tell what you will eat then? surely something will replace them.

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#717054 - 04/16/07 09:21 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore XODUS
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Originally Posted By: XODUS
it's not that no other fish does it, it is that no other fish does it to that capacity in that particular ecosystem. And no other fish don't just move in and fill up the population gap when the cod is gone. I read a paper once theorizing "what if there were no mosquitos?" human extinction was the result. granted there were some slippery conclusions but still, take cattle out and tell what you will eat then? surely something will replace them.


But global warming fanatics would just love to take out cattle. We took out buffalo, cows replaced them.

Why do you think no other fish will move in? Other species compete with cod for food and breeding grounds. Besides, we can always breed them in captivity and dump them in the ocean.

Besides, if you believe in evolution, why would you want to stop the natural evolution of the planet? Or do you think we as humans aren't a part of that same natural evolution?

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#717061 - 04/16/07 09:58 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore B_F
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what if we over fish the next fish that moves in to take the cod's place?

Or the next?

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#717062 - 04/16/07 10:09 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore B_F
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Besides, if you believe in evolution, why would you want to stop the natural evolution of the planet? Or do you think we as humans aren't a part of that same natural evolution?


Unless fish grow appendages to remove the hooks from their mouths or slap their fisherman, evolution isn't the issue. Willfully exhausting the supply of one species will disrupt the natural balance. That has nothing to do with evolution, and a lot more to do with greed and gluttony.
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#717063 - 04/16/07 10:09 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
what if we over fish the next fish that moves in to take the cod's place?

Or the next?



What if the trees turn blue and cows start to bark, while fish walk on the land, and sheep live in the sea?

Survival of the fittest. If we eat all the fish in the sea, and can't adapt, other creatures will survive.

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#717064 - 04/16/07 10:11 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore Bacon Boy
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Originally Posted By: Bacon Boy
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Besides, if you believe in evolution, why would you want to stop the natural evolution of the planet? Or do you think we as humans aren't a part of that same natural evolution?


Unless fish grow appendages to remove the hooks from their mouths or slap their fisherman, evolution isn't the issue. Willfully exhausting the supply of one species will disrupt the natural balance. That has nothing to do with evolution, and a lot more to do with greed and gluttony.


Pardon me, but since when is our fishing not a part of the natural balance? What you want is status quo, not natural balance. Survival of the fittest means if a species can't handle the fact that we are fishing for them by swimming deeper, breeding faster, or moving away from our fishing grounds, then it won't continue to exist.

As for greed and gluttony, since when is McDonalds filet of fish being sold cheaply greedy? Cod is CHEAP. And gluttony? Most people who eat fish eat a lot less than those who eat other foods. Portion sizes of fish are generally smaller than other foods too.
Last edited by Bengalsfan; 04/16/07 10:12 PM.
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#717067 - 04/16/07 10:20 PM Re: The Politics of Attacking Al Gore B_F
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BF, I'm just pushing moderation and respecting the environment. I agree with you that we should all play our part as residents of this planet to maintain it.
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