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#746912 - 06/05/07 06:43 PM Re: Dr. Death MagicCity
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: MagicCity
"What if it was based on academic studies that demonstrated a correlation between patients who chose assisted suicide and higher divorce rates in families left behind?"

Huh?
I would not believe it.

Bottom line - Keep Your Laws Off My Body!


Drug laws - should I be allowed to ingest any drug, since it is my body?

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#746916 - 06/05/07 06:45 PM Re: Dr. Death anon2006
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how is somebody going to strap themselves to kevorkian's machine, push the botton and NOT be giving consent? the waiver seems superfluous imo. kevorkian wasn't tried for murder was he?

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#746917 - 06/05/07 06:46 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
Yossarian Offline
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Quote:
I am trying to understand why those against assisted suicide are trying to establish a religion.


The phrase is "establishment of religion". It does not have to be "a" particular religion.

Quote:
But illegality/immorality regarding murder comes from religious beliefs


Not necessarily. Virtually every society, religious or non-religious, has prohibitions against murder and stealing. They certainly have a basis independent of religion since they promote a stable and safe society. That's one reason why prohibiting assisted suicide is not an establishment of religion.

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#746924 - 06/05/07 06:48 PM Re: Dr. Death Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
I am trying to understand why those against assisted suicide are trying to establish a religion.


The phrase is "establishment of religion". It does not have to be "a" particular religion.

Quote:
But illegality/immorality regarding murder comes from religious beliefs


Not necessarily. Virtually every society, religious or non-religious, has prohibitions against murder and stealing. They certainly have a basis independent of religion since they promote a stable and safe society. That's one reason why prohibiting assisted suicide is not an establishment of religion.


And that is all I was trying to get to. That one can be against assisted suicide without establishing a religion.

For what its worth, which socities are non-religious?

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#746925 - 06/05/07 06:48 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
Drug laws - should I be allowed to ingest any drug, since it is my body?


IMO - yes.

Just like I think prostitution should be legal.....

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#746932 - 06/05/07 06:54 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
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Quote:
Sure, suicide by cop. Or, the victim has expressed a desire for death and somone, without discussing with victim, kills them.

i dont think these are the types of things that would be covered by physician-assisted suicide. also, who would be punished? the "expression" killing sounds like murder and the patient isn't doing it by their hand/directive.
Quote:
Yes, Schiavo disturbed me in that we were not ending treatment, but were going to starve her on the basis of what she may or may not have said. Schiavo didn't have documentation and I am not sure I agree with taking this action without clear, written instructions.

a tragic case to be sure. certainly should be an impetus for people creating living wills. keeping her "alive" wasn't keeping her "living" and she had no possibility to "live" at any time in the future. technology makes many of these ethical questions so much trickier because they open up avenues which were not even though of before.
Quote:
Is murder (not assisted suicide as I am not saying it is murder) immoral?

it is. but unlike assisted suicide, the victim isn't making the decision so her rights are never considered. in assisted suicide, the rights of the individual are being compared with the morality of the society.

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#746936 - 06/05/07 06:57 PM Re: Dr. Death Hated By Some
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Ok, so you are weighing the morality vs. the individual and siding with individual. My libertarian streak likes that.

I honestly don't know how I feel about assisted suicide. The difference between stopping treatment and actively doing something to end your life.

Misfeasance vs. nonfeasance.

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#746947 - 06/05/07 07:01 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
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Quote:
Ok, so you are weighing the morality vs. the individual and siding with individual. My libertarian streak likes that.

i'm not an animal!

Quote:
I honestly don't know how I feel about assisted suicide. The difference between stopping treatment and actively doing something to end your life.

Misfeasance vs. nonfeasance.

i really feel the same way. it's like abortion to me: what a horrible horrible dilemma! but yet i don't want to NOT make it a dilemma for the parties involved.

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#746955 - 06/05/07 07:04 PM Re: Dr. Death Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico

no, i have a problem with them forcing those beliefs on others. try to convice them? sure, but the individuals rights should be paramount here. enough to trump laws where society says "this is a bad practice".


Perish the thought of the people petitioning their elected representatives to pass laws or not that express their values. It doesn't really matter though. Obama/Clinton 08 will make all things better.
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#746956 - 06/05/07 07:05 PM Re: Dr. Death Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
i really feel the same way. it's like abortion to me: what a horrible horrible dilemma! but yet i don't want to NOT make it a dilemma for the parties involved.




I dont see where the dilemma is. It seems to me that the person that wants to die and the person assisting would not be objecting (obviously).

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#746962 - 06/05/07 07:07 PM Re: Dr. Death anon2006
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Originally Posted By: QueenBee
Originally Posted By: straw
Drug laws - should I be allowed to ingest any drug, since it is my body?


IMO - yes.

Just like I think prostitution should be legal.....


IMO - no. Not ANY drug - but only because of the side-effects. Ingesting a drug that could cause your actions while on that drug to adversly affect others is an issue. Ingest a drug that has no harm on others - go for it!
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#746965 - 06/05/07 07:07 PM Re: Dr. Death Blade Scrapper
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Quote:
Perish the thought of the people petitioning their elected representatives to pass laws or not that express their values.

huh? the constitution is in place for (among other things) to protect the minority from the masses. in this example, the rights of the individual are pretty overwhelming.

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#746969 - 06/05/07 07:08 PM Re: Dr. Death Beige
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Originally Posted By: smilin' sunshine
Originally Posted By: QueenBee
Originally Posted By: straw
Drug laws - should I be allowed to ingest any drug, since it is my body?


IMO - yes.

Just like I think prostitution should be legal.....


IMO - no. Not ANY drug - but only because of the side-effects. Ingesting a drug that could cause your actions while on that drug to adversly affect others is an issue. Ingest a drug that has no harm on others - go for it!


I guess that makes pot ok

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#746972 - 06/05/07 07:09 PM Re: Dr. Death anon2006
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Originally Posted By: QueenBee


IMO - yes.

Just like I think prostitution should be legal.....


Thinking career change?

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#746978 - 06/05/07 07:10 PM Re: Dr. Death anon2006
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Quote:
I dont see where the dilemma is. It seems to me that the person that wants to die and the person assisting would not be objecting (obviously).

dilemma in arbotion: keep the child and everything that goes with that or abort the child and everything that goes with that.

dilemma in AS: get rid of the pain vs potentially going straight to [censored]

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#746989 - 06/05/07 07:13 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
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Quote:
I guess that makes pot ok

the only thing(s) that makes it NOT ok are fear of change and hypocrisy.

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#746992 - 06/05/07 07:13 PM Re: Dr. Death Beige
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Originally Posted By: smilin' sunshine


IMO - no. Not ANY drug - but only because of the side-effects. Ingesting a drug that could cause your actions while on that drug to adversly affect others is an issue. Ingest a drug that has no harm on others - go for it!


Very good point...but how do you decide which ones are okay and which arent? If you look at it that way, alcohol could be considered a drug.

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#746995 - 06/05/07 07:16 PM Re: Dr. Death Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
Perish the thought of the people petitioning their elected representatives to pass laws or not that express their values.

huh? the constitution is in place for (among other things) to protect the minority from the masses. in this example, the rights of the individual are pretty overwhelming.


Should the courts then declare the legislative process dormant?
Who is the minority. Those who disagree?
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#746997 - 06/05/07 07:17 PM Re: Dr. Death straw
Yossarian Offline
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Quote:
And that is all I was trying to get to. That one can be against assisted suicide without establishing a religion.

For what its worth, which socities are non-religious?


Or, more to the point, without establishing religion generally in violation of the First Amendment.

There have been small groups of people that have banded together in non-religious societies, but if you mean at a country level, the examples that come to mind would probably be certain of the Communist countries.

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#747004 - 06/05/07 07:21 PM Re: Dr. Death Yossarian
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But, today, there would not really be any countries that are non-religious.

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#747032 - 06/05/07 07:36 PM Re: Dr. Death Blade Scrapper
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Quote:
Should the courts then declare the legislative process dormant?

they can't. have you never heard of a law being declared unconstutional?
Quote:
Who is the minority.

those desiring to have AS. if a law was passed by a majority of the people to make AS illegal, wouldn't that by definition makes those wanting AS in the minority?

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#747067 - 06/05/07 07:54 PM Re: Dr. Death Hated By Some
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People in NAMBLA wish to have statutory rape laws declared unconstitutional. Does their new found status as a minority grant them constitutional relief from the tyranny of the majority? At what point do you draw the line?
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#747074 - 06/05/07 08:00 PM Re: Dr. Death Blade Scrapper
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Quote:
People in NAMBLA wish to have statutory rape laws declared unconstitutional.

how many parties are there in man-boy 'love'?

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#747079 - 06/05/07 08:01 PM Re: Dr. Death anon2006
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"If you look at it that way, alcohol could be considered a drug."

Alcohol certainly is a drug..
That's the argument vs legalizing marijuana or not?
Which is more destructive? Alcohol or marijuana?
Who decides?

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#747091 - 06/05/07 08:06 PM Re: Dr. Death MagicCity
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Originally Posted By: MagicCity
"If you look at it that way, alcohol could be considered a drug."

Alcohol certainly is a drug..
That's the argument vs legalizing marijuana or not?
Which is more destructive? Alcohol or marijuana?
Who decides?


IMO, alcohol is much more destructive.

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