closed end equity loans to a consumer. We are calling the $18 flood search and life of loan charge a PPFC. Sometimes the borrower pays it up front or sometimes it is rolled into our "fees waived" promo so then the bank pays the $18.
1st question: no matter who pays the fee - the consumer or the bank, do we still list it as a PPFC in the itemization of amount financed section?
2nd question: We give a HUD with these loans so does that suffice for the itemization of amount financed or do we have to fill in the area on the bottom of our TIL form for the $18 and also list on the HUD?
3rd question: in the Fed Box, the Finance Charge $ amount and the Amount Financed $ amount do not agree to the Total of Payments $ amount. It is short whatever PPFC we are listing in the itemization area. The payment streams add up to the Total of payments. Are we disclosing our loans correctly?

Question 1: In the $18 fee, technically only the Life of Loan amount is a PPFC and the fee amount related to life of loan should be identified on the itemization of amount financed section.

Question 2: I believe you can use the information on the HUD-1 to support the TILA but in most cases, many banks (and lenders) issue a separate Amount Financed Dislcosure.

Question 3: The Amount Financed + the Finance Charge should = the total amount of payments. What you should see is that the amount financed will be the loan amount - PPFC items.

Thank you for your comments. I just need to clarify a little more
question 3: so if the amount financed is the loan amount minus the PPFC, that still doesn't make my numbers add up. Do I have to add the PPFC $18 into the finance charge box $ amount? Do I Add the $18 to the finance charge box and subtract the $18 from amount financed box? If this is how we need to disclose to the consumer, we don't want the $18 to be included in the APR since they already paid the $. That is where I get confused. If the $18 is added into the finance charge box then how does it not get included in the APR calculation?

If you are treating the whole $18 as a PPFC, then it has to be included in the finance charge and APR and is excluded from the amount financed. Whether they pay the $19 separately or within the transaction, it is still a PPFC and has to be included in the APR calculation.

Just an additional thought on your comment about the Finance Charge box and Amount Financed box not equaling the Total of Payments, even though the payment schedule payments do equal the Total of Payments....
Typically, the Finance Charge and Amount Financed will equal the Total of Payments, but not always. For example, if the loan has credit insurance premiums or debt cancellation payments based on a monthly outstanding balance amount, (as opposed to single-premium insurance where the premium is paid all at closing), the payment schedule should still equal the Total of Payments, but will not equal the total of Finance Charge and Amount Financed.

Related to your first question...if the bank pays the fee (not the customer) then it is not a PPFC and should not have anything to do with your TIL calculations. It would still be listed on the settlement statement as a POC item.

can you tell me where to find the wording to back up your statement. This is the main issue that I am currently dealing with and the Lending VP says we have to include the PPFC even if the bank is paying as part of the "waive fees" if they advance a certain $ threshold on the loan. Your help is greatly appreciated.

226.4(a). The definition of a finance charge. If the consumer is not paying the charge then it is not a finance charge.

river girl there may be some confusion with the GFE and TIL. Waived fees need to be included in the GFE, but like the others mentioned they are NOT included as PPFC when the customer does not pay.