Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Thread Options Tools
#82731 - 05/27/03 03:26 PM HMDA-Date Action Taken
Ruby Offline
Junior Member
Ruby
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 35
For loans with a rescission period, which date do you use for date action taken for HMDA, note date or disbursement? The HMDA getting it right book says "closing or settlement" date so I have always used note date. However, Kirchman says that the disbursement date is also acceptable though I can't find this in HMDA Getting it Right. I just found that one of our departments a few months ago decided independently to start using disbursement date. They're going to return to using note date, but I'm trying to determine if it is necessary to go back and scrub that field for the last several months, or if it is acceptable to leave it as is.

Return to Top
General Discussion
#82732 - 05/27/03 03:33 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
Kirchmann's opinion notwithstanding, I'd take the more conservative approach and use the note date, since it's referenced (in its alter ego "closing/settlement date") in Getting it Right.

If you don't think it would be a huge undertaking, I recommend getting your use of the date consistent, at least for 2003 activity and going forward. Consistency is one of the watchwords in HMDA recordkeeping.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#82733 - 05/27/03 04:21 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,757
On the Net
GIR says that you may use the closing date or the settlement date. As John noted, consistency is key. If you have a solid procedure and apply it consistently, it is easier to follow and verify that it was done correctly.


"Date of action taken. Enter the
settlement or closing date for
originations."
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#82734 - 05/27/03 04:38 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Ruby Offline
Junior Member
Ruby
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 35
Thanks for your responses. I appreciate your help with this.

I noticed that you highlighted "or" between settlement or closing -- Do you consider settlement and closing date to be two different dates? I could not find a definition of settlement or closing in HMDA so I looked at RESPA just to try to get a better idea of the terminology and found the following definition: "Settlement means the process of executing legally binding documents regarding a lien on property that is subject to a federally related mortgage loan. This process may also be called ``closing'' or ``escrow'' in different jurisdictions." I considered settlement and closing to be the same thing. For HMDA, do you think that settlement or closing should be considered different dates, such as note date and disbursement date?

Return to Top
#82735 - 05/27/03 05:13 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,757
On the Net
I see them as you noted, we signed on day one, it was funded on day 3. You could use 1 or 3, but be consistent in the practice.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#82736 - 05/27/03 08:25 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
For whatever it's worth, at least some of your loans will not be subject to ROR and will probably be disbursed at closing. For ease of procedure, this date is probably the better one to pick, since you can consistently refer to the loan's closing date for the HMDA Action Date.
_________________________
John S. Burnett
BankersOnline.com
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#82737 - 05/27/03 08:34 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
SMQ, CRCM Offline
Power Poster
SMQ, CRCM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,828
Between the lines
Quote:

For whatever it's worth, at least some of your loans will not be subject to ROR and will probably be disbursed at closing. For ease of procedure, this date is probably the better one to pick, since you can consistently refer to the loan's closing date for the HMDA Action Date.


OMG, a really clear answer to a HMDA question and one that makes sense. John, could you PPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE work on the HMDA & CRA guides for us?
BTW, I am not being sarcastic here, it just seems that there are never any clear, sensible answers to HMDA or CRA-----or maybe I'm just having a bad day.
_________________________
NOLA is my Beach!

Return to Top
#82738 - 05/27/03 08:39 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Andy_Z Offline
10K Club
Andy_Z
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 27,757
On the Net
Devil's advocate, OK, you log down the date the docs were signed. Then the customer decides to rescind. Now it is approved not accepted? And you also need to change the date of action. Why do all that?

FWIW, I agree with John but for consistency sake we show the date it was disbursed because that is how our mortgage lender's software handles it.
_________________________
AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
R+R-R=R+R
Rules and Regs minus Relationships equals Resentment and Rebellion. John Maxwell

Return to Top
#82739 - 05/27/03 09:09 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Dan Persfull Offline
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,568
Bloomington, IN
Quote:

Devil's advocate, OK, you log down the date the docs were signed. Then the customer decides to rescind. Now it is approved not accepted?




Actually HMDA gives you the option of reporting it as Approved not Accepted or as an Origination. Page D-10 of the GIR 2. Action taken - rescinded transaction.

I agree with the consistency stance - we report the note date.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#82740 - 05/27/03 09:24 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
David Dickinson Offline
10K Club
David Dickinson
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,765
Central City, NE
I like to see the loan date. If I am doing an audit and see a date on the LAR that is different than the loan date, to be sure, I have to verify the advancement date. Now I'm checking your rescission advancement as well.

If you have examiners doing this, they are checking things they don't usually look at (in that great of detail). This would not be what I would want.
_________________________
David Dickinson
http://www.bankerscompliance.com

Return to Top
#82741 - 05/27/03 10:43 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Ruby Offline
Junior Member
Ruby
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 35
You have brought up several issues I hadn't considered. We've decided to return to using note date and will scrub the action taken date field for all rescindable loans from the affected department. I think this will be best for us for the sake of consistency. Thank you all.

Return to Top
#82742 - 05/28/03 04:47 AM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
I have found using the Note Date to be the most reliable, and least "hassle-able" method for the HMDA Action Date. Just look at a copy of the note, and off you go. No more looking for copies of G.L. tickets. No more looking for any "back-dating" on G.L. tickets. No more worrying that the note department/funder was looking at the wrong calendar date as he/she was filling out G.L. tickets. No lengthy debates with examiners on what is "actually" meant by "closing date" - I could go on....
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#82743 - 05/28/03 12:49 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
David Dickinson Offline
10K Club
David Dickinson
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,765
Central City, NE
Excellent point Bonnie. Plus, you gave me a new term: "hassle-able"
_________________________
David Dickinson
http://www.bankerscompliance.com

Return to Top
#82744 - 05/28/03 04:27 PM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
Thanks David - I always try to add value when I can!
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#82745 - 05/29/03 01:03 AM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Anonymous
Unregistered

Same subject, but how about for a denial? Before we had credit scoring we used the date of the denial notice since we had nothing that specifically indicated the date the decision to deny was made. With credit scoring we have a copy of the decision, but we're not sure if we should use that date since the decision could be overriden. Would it be appropriate to use the date of the credit scoring report as our date action taken? Thank you.

Return to Top
#82746 - 05/29/03 01:06 AM Re: HMDA-Date Action Taken
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
It's best to be consistent. As you say, an automated credit scoring decision can be overridden. I would say the date of your Adverse Action notice is the final action date for a decline.
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top