Skip to content
BOL Conferences
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Thread Options Tools
#85772 - 06/05/03 08:54 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Deena Offline
Power Poster
Deena
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,701
PA
For those who can't access the link Randy posted above, here's the description from the ad (by the way, this has been sold, in case you were interested):

"This beautifully appointed floating home occupies the single most breathtaking moorage space available in Seattle. With the sweeping unobstructed full city skyline over the water to the south and west, you will own a unique and very special urban hideaway. This home was built in 1975 and designed by Seattleā€™s premier maritime residential architect, J.W.P. Olsen. It has since been updated and restored with no thought to expense.
Custom stainless steel structural fittings throughout the home gather together a sense of space and water living on 3 levels. The dining room opens to a spacious deck, both with full city views. The kitchen features a desk/planning area and high end appliances & cabinetry, e.g. Jennaire, Kitchenaid, etc. The living room features a mezzanine level and has custom built-in furniture & shelving; it overlooks the dining area.

On the upper level is the master bedroom, with more stunning views and a private deck; the 2nd bedroom, convenient utility area, and a wonderful master bath that takes full advantage of the curved glass skylight walls on the north and west sides of the home."

This is most definitely a dwelling. I stand by my original opinion.

_________________________
Opinions expressed are mine and not necessarily those of my employer.

Return to Top
General Discussion
#85773 - 06/05/03 08:56 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
hmdagal Offline
Power Poster
hmdagal
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,841
I live in a "Great City on a Great Lake" and we have boats here that people live in that all have an engine of some sort. These don't sound like the type of houseboat that is being discussed.

However, there are houseboats along the Mississippi River that don't move. They are permanently docked. Friends who live in that area have told me that there are DNR rules governing these buildings - new ones can't be built, the existing ones can't be sold, and only minor improvements (approved by the DNR) can be made.

One other thought - if houseboats are considered dwellings, how would the owners get flood insurance?

Return to Top
#85774 - 06/05/03 09:00 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Anonymous
Unregistered

Dawnie,
The movie was "Sleepless in Seattle".

Return to Top
#85775 - 06/05/03 09:32 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
D C Offline
Junior Member
D C
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 43
Randy and Dan,

This reminds me of a question I had last year on whether a travel trailer was HMDA reportable. I sent an email to the HMDA help line and the response was:
Quote:

If you feel that it is HMDA reportable simply provide the support for your decision, should your regulatory examiners question why it is included.



Return to Top
#85776 - 06/05/03 09:55 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Dave C, I'm not surprised at all.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85777 - 06/05/03 10:07 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
David Dickinson Offline
10K Club
David Dickinson
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,762
Central City, NE
I was out of the office today, so I just got in on this discussion. If it matters, my opinion is that house boats are dwellings for HMDA and should be reported. HMDA doesn't want recreational vehicles and boats, but it does want a house boat.
_________________________
David Dickinson
http://www.bankerscompliance.com

Return to Top
#85778 - 06/05/03 10:22 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
David, when it comes to Flood, HMDA, RESPA etc. Your opinion is always welcome and it looks like I'm going to be out classed in this one. It's just hard for me to think of a house boat as a dwelling.

So, if a guy wants to buy (or refi for that matter) a Houseboat (and we do have some 2 and 3 story house boats on Lake Monroe but they are "house boats) to use as his "vacation" get away on weekends, would this be reported as a purchase/refi?

Geez, I only asked for one thing this week and that was not to put me through another Monday. Look out Miller Lite (I had too much Crown the other night ) here I come.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85779 - 06/05/03 11:17 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
Quote:

So, if a guy wants to buy (or refi for that matter) a Houseboat (and we do have some 2 and 3 story house boats on Lake Monroe but they are "house boats) to use as his "vacation" get away on weekends, would this be reported as a purchase/refi?




Are we talking his yacht? It's got a stern and an aft and a bow (I'm mixing my sailor terms). That...is a recreational vehicle no matter the size. Long or short...skinny or fat, pointy ends You get the picture.

If the thing is square, permanently mored (moared? moored?) ok not tied up to the dock with a piece of string, it's probably a house Either a vacation dwelling or permanently occupied, but it's a dwelling none the less.

Flood insurance is available (at least it was when I did home loans) but it had some funny limits. Typically there is also a storm damage provision, which these dwellings are particularly subject to.

If you picture all those horrible pics we see each year of homes being swallowed by overflowing rivers...normally a cow on the roof, that's exactly what one of these puppies would look like (likely no cow). They are damaged by severe flood, being as they're really not made to be transported to such an extent.

They also do have geo-codes, though those changed in 2000 data. They used to have a little rider at the end..I think it was .98 or .99 but I can't quite remember (houseboats don't do well when the water freezes...hence their rarity in Alaska). These went away with the new census and they are now coded to match the land closest to the residence.

Really if you'd see the things, they're floating houses, not remotely to be confused with a RV or boat. They are often confused to be part of the land.
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85780 - 06/06/03 03:08 AM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
No, these are not "yachts". They are houseboats. Full living quarters (some will sleep up to 15 people). They are not permanently docked (some are tied to buoys and the occupants have to be ferried to them). Most of the time these "boats" are taken to some of the remote coves and anchored for the weekend and some are taken to the party coves and anchored for the weekend. To me even though these people "live" on these boats on the weekends, or in some cases a couple of weeks vacation, they are RVs not dwellings. This is why I have had a hard time accepting houseboats reportable. I've never heard of such a creature that you and Randy was talking about until today. I live such a sheltered life.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85781 - 06/06/03 04:36 AM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
If the subject "property" of your loan is INTENDED to be a dwelling, it is HMDA reportable.

There are people who live in cars and pull-a-long trailers. Those are examples of personal property that was never intended to be "dwellings." Therefore, these would not be reported for HMDA.

However, in the case of certain "houseboats", these were designed to be dwellings. Therefore, they should be HMDA reportable.

Of course, there is always my little rule-of-thumb when in doubt (and when the property is NOT multi-family):
- Would the property ever be eligible for Right of Recission if we were doing an Owner Occupied refinance? If the answer is "Yes", then it goes on HMDA.

_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#85782 - 06/06/03 05:26 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
I'd call those party boats Dan. Yes they have kitchens and bedrooms, (I've rented one myself) but they're not truely a permanent moored living structure. Definately in the RV category of boats.

If this is your only experience with houseboats...I can see why you're swayed towards non-HMDA. But once you see these lovely structures, permanently moored you'd be with Randy and I on this one. I lived in a one story houseboat as a kid. It looked like any other cape cod style home in the area, but it floated It's a great way to live!

Yes Bonnie...they're subject to ROR as well.

So are we agreed? I don't have to eat my shoe?
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85783 - 06/06/03 05:51 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Quote:

If this is your only experience with houseboats...




Exactly. That's why I said I have never heard of, much less seen one of the structures you and Randy are talking about.

The answer to my question, Are houseboats used as a primary residence reportable under HMDA?, from HMDA Help is Yes . (So now do I have to start reporting these "houseboats" I referred to? )

So Dawnie you don't have to eat your shoe. Guess I'll have to volunteer to eat one of my, but at a size 13 I don't know if I could get it all down.

Think I'll just become a bartender. NO, that won't work, I'd drink up all my tips....
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85784 - 06/06/03 05:55 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Princess Romeo Offline

Power Poster
Princess Romeo
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,272
Where the heart is
Dan, remember that not all houseboats are going to be HMDA reportable. There are houseboats, and then, there are houseboats.

If the houseboat is a recreational craft, then it would not be reportable. But if the houseboat is intended to be a "dwelling", then it is reportable. Think about the difference between motels and apartment buildings. Motels are not HMDA reportable, but apartments are.
_________________________
CRCM,CAMS
Regulations are a poor substitute for ethics.
Just sayin'

Return to Top
#85785 - 06/06/03 05:57 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
Heh Heh Dan, size 13 is why you didn't volunteer to eat your shoe if you were a little off in your reasoning I'm a six...much easier to spread between a lunch and dinner!

No, I still wouldn't report those RV type boat's you're talking about. They really are like travel trailors on water. Most definately in the "RV" category of boats referenced in GIR. They aren't built to live in, and infact wouldn't be safe in a storm, less so than a normal boat, so I'd have a hard time calling it a residence. The one we rented had a notice in it that told us where to pull up in bad weather and to get out of the darned thing because it's a death trap if it sinks. (not quite their wording...but close). A real "houseboat" and Randy and I were referencing, isn't a structure you flee from in a good wind
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85786 - 06/06/03 05:59 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
Hey Dan...instead of eating your shoe...watch Sleepless in Seattle You'll probably fall asleep...but not before you see what our "houseboats" really look like
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85787 - 06/06/03 06:12 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Quote:

Hey Dan...instead of eating your shoe...watch Sleepless in Seattle




I think I may preferr eating my shoe. I've not seen the show but from what I've heard about it I'd probably be asleep before the opening credits were done.

I'll check out Randy's link at home (I forgot to do that the other night) to see if it has a picture of these animals you're talking about.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85788 - 06/06/03 06:32 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Retired DQ Offline
10K Club
Retired DQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
Here's a Houseboat link
for everyone's viewing pleasure. Quite a lively discussion.
I feel very pictorial today!
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

Return to Top
#85789 - 06/06/03 06:34 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Thanks Maria, but I can't get to these sites through my firewall so I'll have to wait until I get on-line at home.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85790 - 06/06/03 06:36 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Retired DQ Offline
10K Club
Retired DQ
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,766
Turnpike Exit 10
Try at home, maybe a Tanqueray martini would be in order instead of Crown, after all, it is Friday!
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please. - Mark Twain

Return to Top
#85791 - 06/06/03 06:38 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Tanqueray and Tonic. That's my summer drink. How did you know?
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85792 - 06/06/03 06:44 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
www.marklowry.com/images/ houseboat.jpg (not HMDA reportable LOL)

www.budgettoursinindia.com/ kerala-tour.html (again...nope)

www.raphotoclub.com/rapc/ p_fogarty.shtml (WOW that's a houseboat!)

(Randy's and my idea of houseboats...HMDA reportable)
seattletimes.nwsource.com/.../ showingoff/08232002.html
www.washington-chile.org/ images/b_houseboat2.jpg
www.sailing-in-seattle.com/ images/Houseboat.gif
www.sailing-in-seattle.com/ images/Houseboat.gif (no need to see the movie now Dan)
[url=http://www.lakeunion.com/houseboats/ images/hsebt3.jpg [/url]
WOW what a HMDA place!
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85793 - 06/06/03 07:09 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Dan Persfull Online
10K Club
Dan Persfull
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 47,517
Bloomington, IN
Well geezzzz!! At least with all these sites everyone is providing I'll have somethig to do this weekend while it's raining. Thanks.
_________________________
The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

Return to Top
#85794 - 06/06/03 07:23 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
RFitzpatrick Offline
Gold Star
RFitzpatrick
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 424
Pacific NW
The main idea is that a houseboat is not the same as boat you can live on, but a house with a superior marine view.
_________________________
Liability for taking my advice is limited to the amount you paid for it.

Return to Top
#85795 - 06/06/03 07:27 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster
HRH Dawnie
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
I was happy to post those links...and not a link to a pic of my italian shoes
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen

CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.

Return to Top
#85796 - 06/06/03 07:35 PM Re: Houseboats and HMDA
Anonymous
Unregistered

I'm not sure how we as compliance officers can be expected to determine which houseboat qualifies and which one does not. I'm sure we would all disagree in classifying certain ones. Besides it does not seem any more right to not consider a low income houseboat not reportable while reporting a high income version any more than we exclude low income houses based on livable standards. I've seen plenty of reportable homes that are no where near as nice as some of the houseboats pictured above yet we are instructed to report them.

In my humble opinion a houseboat is reportable or not based on use as a dwelling. If someone lives in a houseboat permanently and has no other residence I do not consider it a recreational vehicle regardless of how nice it is.

Return to Top
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3