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#863005 - 11/29/07 07:35 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
rainman
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under the Lone Star
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role of criminal justice system. does deterence play a role in this system? yes does retribution? Dear Ron: see on Duet. 17:12,13 and especially Eccl. 8:11 for deterrence "Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil" swift and correct judgement is a deterrent - God says so!!!!
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Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#863006 - 11/29/07 07:35 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
TheManofSteel
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Really, let the theocracy thing go, it is not pertinent in this thread and you say this with a straight face in a thread titled "What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review". i just want to know how it is not pertinent.
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#863007 - 11/29/07 07:37 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Blessed
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TMOS - I am not on ether side of the voting line, I vote for the canidate that has the morals closest to mine.... Pro life happens to be one of my greatest weights, for all the horrible reasons you stated. Lets ask All canidates that question.
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Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)
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#863009 - 11/29/07 07:37 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Blessed
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Fortress of Solitude
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The judgement is that of the soul. And I am sorry, but if someone does things that make them eligable for the death penalty, they have no place with the lord so it is irrelevant This is one point I have to disagree with you CMT. I agree that if they are worthy of the death penalty, then what they did has no place with the Lord, but no matter how evil, God's mercy is greater. They can still repent before God before man's justice (Death Penalty) is carried out. They'd still be subject to DP, but we know not of the fate of the soul. They may be saved.
_________________________
"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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#863010 - 11/29/07 07:38 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Blessed
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
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do you think that criminals return simply because it is the easy life there? a fictional movie notwithstanding, there is a small percentage of "lifers" who choose to return to jail by committing crime rather than live freely on the outside.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#863012 - 11/29/07 07:38 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Imagine
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,624
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Matt. 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven"
Mark 7:8-11 "You disregard God's commandment but cling to human tradition." He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die.' Yet you say, 'If a person says to father or mother, "Any support you might have had from me is qorban"' 4 (meaning, dedicated to God)
Rev. 13:10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
First Tim. 1:8,9 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
---
I'll concede a point on the Revelations chapter and, potentially, the Matthew verses Pale, yet I am not so sure I see the Lord affirming the Death Penalty in the other verses you provided from the New Testament.
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#863016 - 11/29/07 07:40 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Hated By Some
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Really, let the theocracy thing go, it is not pertinent in this thread and you say this with a straight face in a thread titled "What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review". i just want to know how it is not pertinent. are you and Neo paying attention to the Scriptural quotes provided? I thought that is what this thread was directed toward? hmph.........
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#863017 - 11/29/07 07:40 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
HappyGilmore
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a fictional movie notwithstanding was the psychology fictional? also, if they are lifers, why are they getting out? i strongly favor life w/o poss of parole.
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#863018 - 11/29/07 07:41 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Hated By Some
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Fortress of Solitude
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Really, let the theocracy thing go, it is not pertinent in this thread and you say this with a straight face in a thread titled "What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review". i just want to know how it is not pertinent. I'll answer it once Ron, and only once. If you do not get it after that, I do not care to address it with you again. The question posed to the Republicans, "What would Jesus do w/r/t Death Penalty?" This is not about establishing a theocracy, but determining the sentiment with which the Repubs would approach the situation given their moral structure on the teaching of Jesus. I applied the exact same to the question to the Liberal candidates w/r/t killing the unborn. Not about establishing any offical state religions.
_________________________
"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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#863023 - 11/29/07 07:42 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
TheManofSteel
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,390
USA
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The judgement is that of the soul. And I am sorry, but if someone does things that make them eligable for the death penalty, they have no place with the lord so it is irrelevant This is one point I have to disagree with you CMT. I agree that if they are worthy of the death penalty, then what they did has no place with the Lord, but no matter how evil, God's mercy is greater. They can still repent before God before man's justice (Death Penalty) is carried out. They'd still be subject to DP, but we know not of the fate of the soul. They may be saved. I am sorry TMOS I guess I did not explain myself thouroughly. I Also believe a man can be saved, no matter the crime, however at the time of that crime he deserves to be judged.
_________________________
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)
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#863024 - 11/29/07 07:42 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Pale Rider
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Really, let the theocracy thing go, it is not pertinent in this thread and you say this with a straight face in a thread titled "What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review". i just want to know how it is not pertinent. are you and Neo paying attention to the Scriptural quotes provided? I thought that is what this thread was directed toward? hmph......... i guess you are not seeing the irony on basing law directly on God's law (or what chrstians believe it to be).
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#863025 - 11/29/07 07:42 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review *DELETED*
TheManofSteel
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,390
USA
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Post deleted by Call me Kitna
_________________________
Ecclesiastes 10:2 (NIV)
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#863028 - 11/29/07 07:43 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Hated By Some
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Joined: Nov 2004
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tmos, did you see pale's support for the DP as far as deterence goes in 863005?
stll think theocracy is not pertinent? "God says so!!!!" ? Ron, back the theocracy train up a bit. We live in a democracy where everyone has a right to voice (and vote) their opinion on the issues. Your opinion is no less based on your religious views than Pale's. You just have different religious views. Pale doesn't lose his right to vote (or speak) just because his voice and vote are clothed in religious terms. He's not saying you have to believe in his God or obey his God. He's saying "if we are voting on the d.p., I vote in favor of it, and here's why." If a majority of people agree with him on this issue, that doesn't make it a theocracy.
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Nobody's perfect, not even a perfect stranger.
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#863030 - 11/29/07 07:43 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Imagine
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I agree with TMOS on this one Ron, nowhere did he advocate a theocracy. ok, that's cool. you can do things indirectly however (and im not even sure how indirect this thread is...)
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#863031 - 11/29/07 07:43 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Imagine
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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Matt. 5:17-19 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven"
Mark 7:8-11 "You disregard God's commandment but cling to human tradition." He went on to say, "How well you have set aside the commandment of God in order to uphold your tradition! For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and 'Whoever curses father or mother shall die.' Yet you say, 'If a person says to father or mother, "Any support you might have had from me is qorban"' 4 (meaning, dedicated to God)
Rev. 13:10 Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.
First Tim. 1:8,9 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
---
I'll concede a point on the Revelations chapter and, potentially, the Matthew verses Pale, yet I am not so sure I see the Lord affirming the Death Penalty in the other verses you provided from the New Testament. The OT law is not just the 10 commandments, but the 613 precepts which is where we find the DP. All those passages affirm the keeping of the law, ie... the death penalty
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.
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#863032 - 11/29/07 07:43 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Pale Rider
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,624
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Really, let the theocracy thing go, it is not pertinent in this thread and you say this with a straight face in a thread titled "What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review". i just want to know how it is not pertinent. are you and Neo paying attention to the Scriptural quotes provided? I thought that is what this thread was directed toward? hmph......... BUT I'M SNOW MISER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#863033 - 11/29/07 07:44 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Blessed
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10K Club
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,068
Fortress of Solitude
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The judgement is that of the soul. And I am sorry, but if someone does things that make them eligable for the death penalty, they have no place with the lord so it is irrelevant This is one point I have to disagree with you CMT. I agree that if they are worthy of the death penalty, then what they did has no place with the Lord, but no matter how evil, God's mercy is greater. They can still repent before God before man's justice (Death Penalty) is carried out. They'd still be subject to DP, but we know not of the fate of the soul. They may be saved. I am sorry TMOS I guess I did not explain myself thouroughly. I Also believe a man can be saved, no matter the crime, however at the time of that crime he deserves to be judged. Wow, you posted it twice, you must mean it LOL. Understood bro.
_________________________
"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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#863035 - 11/29/07 07:45 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Hated By Some
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Joined: Nov 2003
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have you seen shawshank redemption? do you think that criminals return simply because it is the easy life there? OH NO! Ron played the Morgan Freeman card!!! There's no winning this argument now!!!
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#863037 - 11/29/07 07:46 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
Pale Rider
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,624
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The OT law is not just the 10 commandments, but the 613 precepts which is where we find the DP. All those passages affirm the keeping of the law, ie... the death penalty
I will take your word on it Pale. I enjoy learning from you. If you can, as I am new to restrengthening my faith, I'd love a guidance as to where in the OT I can find these precepts. And in actuality, I've not said that the Church, in my case the Roman Catholic Church, does not *allow* for the DP...I just said that it is immoral and wrong to be used in 2007 America. The Pope in 1995 said the same thing!
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#863042 - 11/29/07 07:49 PM
Re: What Would Jesus Do? GOP Debate Review
TheManofSteel
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,624
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The judgement is that of the soul. And I am sorry, but if someone does things that make them eligable for the death penalty, they have no place with the lord so it is irrelevant This is one point I have to disagree with you CMT. I agree that if they are worthy of the death penalty, then what they did has no place with the Lord, but no matter how evil, God's mercy is greater. They can still repent before God before man's justice (Death Penalty) is carried out. They'd still be subject to DP, but we know not of the fate of the soul. They may be saved. I am sorry TMOS I guess I did not explain myself thouroughly. I Also believe a man can be saved, no matter the crime, however at the time of that crime he deserves to be judged. Wow, you posted it twice, you must mean it LOL. Understood bro. TMOS...not only is Kitna not a 'bro', she is a darn good looking cutie too!
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