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#865683 - 12/04/07 04:31 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Originally Posted By: rainman
Quote:
the issue is so much cleaner when you leave reality out of the equation


that's more irony than I can take at this hour

Because if those babies do not get aborted, then they end up in a van, down buy the river


so where do they end up? swim said that adopting is a bit daunting now as it is. what happens when we have more and more babies and the percentage of those babies are minority (ie, since the largest proportion of abortions go to the minority portion of the population)? i'm simply asking you to put your money where your mouth is.

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#865693 - 12/04/07 04:33 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Originally Posted By: rainman
Quote:
the issue is so much cleaner when you leave reality out of the equation


that's more irony than I can take at this hour

Because if those babies do not get aborted, then they end up in a van, down buy the river


so where do they end up? swim said that adopting is a bit daunting now as it is. what happens when we have more and more babies and the percentage of those babies are minority (ie, since the largest proportion of abortions go to the minority portion of the population)? i'm simply asking you to put your money where your mouth is.


Many of us do, and support organizations like Several Sources Foundation, and Rachel's Children etc, which both facilitate adoption services as well as provide shelter and training for pregnant mothers so that they are able to take care of themselves and their children. You will not find much mention of it in the NY Times and CNN though.
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#865700 - 12/04/07 04:38 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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Quote:
So, lets kill 'em all, right Ron.

huh? i'm just trying to get you to address the consequences of your plan. addressing your hyperbole is a much bigger issue. please try and stay focused.

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#865705 - 12/04/07 04:42 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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so we are supposed to ignore those in orphanages--a number set to increase exponentially under the conscientious conservative plan because we are going to force women to deal with their child instead? "if that ***** just could've kept her legs closed". the man has no responsibility?

seems like the things you talk about hardly even deal with the problem as it currently stands.

but in theory and priniciple, man, you all sound so pious and righteous.

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#865710 - 12/04/07 04:45 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Now you're just making stuff up. No one in this thread has said (or I daresay thought) that the man in the equation shouldn't be held responsible. That just wasn't the issue being discussed.
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#865711 - 12/04/07 04:45 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
so we are supposed to ignore those in orphanages--a number set to increase exponentially under the conscientious conservative plan because we are going to force women to deal with their child instead? "if that ***** just could've kept her legs closed". the man has no responsibility?

seems like the things you talk about hardly even deal with the problem as it currently stands.

but in theory and priniciple, man, you all sound so pious and righteous.


yes Ron, the man has responsibility, which means he also has a choice. How ironic that you do not realize the implications of a man having responsibility.

Who is ignoring those in orphanages? Who Ron?
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#865712 - 12/04/07 04:47 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Originally Posted By: Ms. Becka
Originally Posted By: Tom Thumb
We're not debating whether abortion happens more than a million times a year in this country. We're debating whether it should.


And who should make that determination.


Exactly. Big government (conservative-style) trying to get involved in the private reproductive decisions of women.


No, the reproductive decision has already been made at the point 99.9% of pro-lifers believe the government ought to step in and protect the life of the human being at an earlier stage of development.

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#865714 - 12/04/07 04:49 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill rainman
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Originally Posted By: rainman
Now you're just making stuff up. No one in this thread has said (or I daresay thought) that the man in the equation shouldn't be held responsible. That just wasn't the issue being discussed.

fair enough. but after reading the same arguments back and forth (with very little if any progress), i thought that we could accept the pro-life argument and begin to look at the consequences for a change.

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#865715 - 12/04/07 04:50 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Jokerman
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Again, Ronster, people act like adults and take care of their kids; people that are going overseas to adopt children actually adopt children from here; and people realize they have to take responsiblity for themselves.

Note, that is people, not woman.
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#865722 - 12/04/07 04:52 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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Quote:
How ironic that you do not realize the implications of a man having responsibility.

huh? i honestly don't understand what this means.

Quote:
Who is ignoring those in orphanages? Who Ron?

that's why i asked the quetion, tmos. your side claims that there will be people to adopt babies that previously claimed by abortion, it seems like babies under the current plan aren't even being cared for.

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#865725 - 12/04/07 04:54 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Jokerman
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Quote:
No, the reproductive decision has already been made at the point 99.9% of pro-lifers believe the government ought to step in and protect the life of the human being at an earlier stage of development.

so, practically speaking, how do we fund/enforce/etc issues relating to the "no sex police"?

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#865726 - 12/04/07 04:55 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Again, Ronster, people act like adults and take care of their kids; people that are going overseas to adopt children actually adopt children from here; and people realize they have to take responsiblity for themselves.

Note, that is people, not woman.

so we have to force people to take care of their kids? ok. how do we start making men responsible?

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#865728 - 12/04/07 04:56 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
How ironic that you do not realize the implications of a man having responsibility.

huh? i honestly don't understand what this means.

Quote:
Who is ignoring those in orphanages? Who Ron?

that's why i asked the quetion, tmos. your side claims that there will be people to adopt babies that previously claimed by abortion, it seems like babies under the current plan aren't even being cared for.

I listed a couple of orgs that care for them. And alot of people not adopting put in both money and time to help these orgs to help women and children.

Several Sources Foundation recieved Congressional Recognition for their work. The foundress, Kathie DiFiore, whom I once worked with years ago and was enlightened to the existence of such orgs, has multiple programs for helping homeless women, pregnant teens etc. There are other orgs just like them, except they are not funded by the U.S .Govt, but by pro-life American citizens.
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#865741 - 12/04/07 05:00 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Again, Ronster, people act like adults and take care of their kids; people that are going overseas to adopt children actually adopt children from here; and people realize they have to take responsiblity for themselves.

Note, that is people, not woman.

so we have to force people to take care of their kids? ok. how do we start making men responsible?


I really do not know how you think like this, it is really irrational. Force people to take care of kids?
We do have laws that require parents to make child support payments by the way. To expect people to take responsibility for their own children? C'mon Ron, get real.

However, when people are unable to care for their children (illness, crime, impoverishment) that is what the organizations I listed do,a nd they are funded and run by, you guessed it, pro-life American citizens, churches etc.
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#865748 - 12/04/07 05:03 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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Quote:
And alot of people not adopting put in both money and time to help these orgs to help women and children.

i know. but the point is, these programs aren't fully dealing with the problem now so what happens when the flood gates open?

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#865759 - 12/04/07 05:12 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
No, the reproductive decision has already been made at the point 99.9% of pro-lifers believe the government ought to step in and protect the life of the human being at an earlier stage of development.

so, practically speaking, how do we fund/enforce/etc issues relating to the "no sex police"?


No one is saying that there should be "no sex" police. We are saying that killing unborn babies is not an acceptable alternative to taking responsibility for your actions.

Look, Ron, I have a child and one on the way. As I understand it, you believe that my wife should have the right to say that she's changed her mind and prefers to only have one child, and terminate her pregnancy. However, if a year from now, I decided that I changed my mind and (a) held a pillow over their darling faces so that the missus and I could make a more regular habit of hitting the bars, or (b) abandoned them them for the single life, then the state would do everything it could to (a) bring me to justice, or (b) see to it that I provided support for those children. I'm sure that you believe both of those to be appropriate functions of the state, correct? Does that mean that you support the "no fun" police?

It's not a question of someone trying to deny you a good time, Ron. It's a question of whether your right to a good time overrides someone's right to life.

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#865770 - 12/04/07 05:22 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Jokerman
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Quote:
It's not a question of someone trying to deny you a good time, Ron.


Ron hears that a lot from his girlfriend.
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#865771 - 12/04/07 05:22 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Jokerman
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so what you are saying is that we should have a no-sex police?

Quote:
We are saying that killing unborn babies is not an acceptable alternative to taking responsibility for your actions.

fair enough. that's why i started these questions about the practical circumstances. right now i see women bearing both burdens both physical/emotional and financial. if all these privatley funded programs aren't meeting the needs of those under the current system, what happens when the floodgates open? i want to know tht answers because many of the people who militantly or zealously fight for this cause are also the same people who want smaller government and particularly less government taxation.

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#865774 - 12/04/07 05:24 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
And alot of people not adopting put in both money and time to help these orgs to help women and children.

i know. but the point is, these programs aren't fully dealing with the problem now so what happens when the flood gates open?


Not meaning to be oversimplistic, but exapnding support for these programs and the dedication of more time and resources is one way to improve upon the programs. And keep in mind, one does not have to take a social stance of pro-life to support these types of services and charities. You can claim to be pro-choice and still help organizations dedicated to helping pregnant teens deliver and raise their children, providing schooling and technical training etc, or orgs dedicated to helping homeless pregnant women, victims of rape, those despairing. The more the word gets out, the better. Take a look at this for instance:

http://www.lifecall.org/

http://www.severalsourcesfd.org/

Now let us say 1000 people know of this and donate $10 each. There is $10,000 to help someone in need from a mere $10 per person. If those 1000 people tell 1 person each who is able to donate, then those additional 1000 tell...

The Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed...
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#865776 - 12/04/07 05:24 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill rainman
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Originally Posted By: rainman
Quote:
It's not a question of someone trying to deny you a good time, Ron.


Ron hears that a lot from his girlfriend.


she just gives me a hard time when i want to play WoW. "couple fun" isn't a problem...just don't let the no-sex gestapo find out about it.

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#865778 - 12/04/07 05:27 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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but tmos, the government (as controlled by your ilk) wants to take something away. maybe i am too cynical about the collective goodwill of society (and maybe that is because of how people act about other social welfare) but i just don't think that that which is being taken away is going to be supported uder these admirable plans.

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#865781 - 12/04/07 05:30 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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What is it that is being taken away Ron? Those are despairing words. Be conscious of that, because it is the greatest enemy of mankind in any and all circumstances, even more than lack of knowledge.
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#865788 - 12/04/07 05:33 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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choice/autonomy, tmos. your callousness to women's needs is also despairing.

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#865794 - 12/04/07 05:35 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
choice/autonomy, tmos. your callousness to women's needs is also despairing.

No callousness here, that is a bone-headed assumption on your part. But I am not surprised
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#865797 - 12/04/07 05:37 PM Re: Man Accused Of Slipping Woman Abortion Pill TheManofSteel
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Wow, TMOS would be the last person I would call callous towards women. Otherwise I would never consort with him!!!!
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