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#868766 - 12/07/07 03:59 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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So you think a comparison of individual clerics to the heads of church hierarchies is a fair one?

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#868772 - 12/07/07 04:00 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Considering that Islam does not have a supreme head, like a Pope, yes. Moslem communities are lead by their local Clerics. Again, I emphasize that this is not representative of all, or even most, Moslems.
Last edited by The Man of Steel; 12/07/07 04:03 PM.
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#868776 - 12/07/07 04:03 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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AMLB does raise a vaild point TMOS. Is that a fair comparison? I can point out so called 'Christians' who promote extreme fundamentalist views and you say they were not true 'Christians'. Fair enough. But why then allow folks to label Muslim extremists and fundamentalists based on the Wahhabist sect of Islam?

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#868778 - 12/07/07 04:04 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Miser, read the edit sentence add-on I made.
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#868780 - 12/07/07 04:04 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Thaanks for callin', what's your question dear!

Great, great question...let's unleash the lawyers - Ron Mexico whattaya say?
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#868782 - 12/07/07 04:05 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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I guess I was under the impression it was the Iyatolla(sp)

consider me wrong
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#868785 - 12/07/07 04:06 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? kms
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Just saw it TMOS, we were posting around the same time!

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#868787 - 12/07/07 04:07 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? A_G
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Originally Posted By: Nancy Grace
Thaanks for callin', what's your question dear!

Great, great question...let's unleash the lawyers - Ron Mexico whattaya say?


LOLoad! We can have so much fun today if Nancy Grace comes in an moderates the political discussions here today. LOLoad!

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#868789 - 12/07/07 04:08 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Miser, read the edit sentence add-on I made.


Even with your disclaimer; I disagree that the comparison of local Islamic cleric with the heads of other faith hierarchies is a legitimate one.

I think cleric to cleric is more appropriate, though it does permit comparing the statements of Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps, for example.

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#868790 - 12/07/07 04:09 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Now let me tell you something. As a former prosecutor, I have tried numerous cases with much less evidence and have convicted the felon...

Thanks dear!
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#868800 - 12/07/07 04:13 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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Quote:
Moslem communities are lead by their local Clerics.


Quote:
Again, I emphasize that this is not representative of all, or even most, Moslems.


so then what is your point? are you saying that a small minority of extremeists are who give islam a bad name that people like iautomate then ask ridiculous "questions" about? isn't it like the people like you who say "hey, pat robertson doesn't represent me!"

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#868809 - 12/07/07 04:17 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Now. Wait. Just. A. Second Ron Mexico.

I am a vet-er-an trial lawyer...
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#868813 - 12/07/07 04:18 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Miser, read the edit sentence add-on I made.


Even with your disclaimer; I disagree that the comparison of local Islamic cleric with the heads of other faith hierarchies is a legitimate one.

I think cleric to cleric is more appropriate, though it does permit comparing the statements of Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps, for example.

Then what supreme leader in Islam would you compare to? And regardless, the greater point is that people with spiritual authority and the spiritual well-being of those entrusted to them are inciting them to what should be un-Moslemlike (and unChristlike) behavior int he extreme. Whether a local Imam, Sheikh, or an Ayatollah.
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#868824 - 12/07/07 04:23 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote:
So you think a comparison of individual clerics to the heads of church hierarchies is a fair one?


Fine, I'll repose the question to suit your needs/vision of fairness...

Please point out a clerical member of an organized religion who has called for the death of those who do not believe their Bible and/or teachings. (sorry boys, Pat Robertson doesn't count, as he is not affiliated with any organized religious organization).

And try not to use the all-encompassing "Christian" or "Christianity" as this word has been perverted by many a person who claims to be that, when in reality it is a label they are hiding behind.
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#868825 - 12/07/07 04:23 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Miser, read the edit sentence add-on I made.


Even with your disclaimer; I disagree that the comparison of local Islamic cleric with the heads of other faith hierarchies is a legitimate one.

I think cleric to cleric is more appropriate, though it does permit comparing the statements of Pat Robertson, or Fred Phelps, for example.

Then what supreme leader in Islam would you compare to? And regardless, the greater point is that people with spiritual authority and the spiritual well-being of those entrusted to them are inciting them to what should be un-Moslemlike (and unChristlike) behavior int he extreme. Whether a local Imam, Sheikh, or an Ayatollah.


My point was that, lacking a 'supreme leader', comparisons between clerics and the 'supreme leaders; of other religions was inappropriate. You can go the route of comparing individuals to individuals, if you like. The greater point might be to look at the signatories to "A Common Word" to compare the words of other mullahs, imams, etc.

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#868827 - 12/07/07 04:25 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? A_G
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TMOS, if you cannot compare to a supreme leader is Islam, then Happy should not have attempted to make such a comparison.
Last edited by Snow Miser; 12/07/07 04:26 PM.
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#868829 - 12/07/07 04:27 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Way, way south.
Another point would be, do you see many Christians following the teachings of the very few extreme/radical Christian "leaders" and killing people?

Let me save you time, the answer is no.
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#868831 - 12/07/07 04:29 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian

My point was that, lacking a 'supreme leader', comparisons between clerics and the 'supreme leaders; of other religions was inappropriate. You can go the route of comparing individuals to individuals, if you like. The greater point might be to look at the signatories to "A Common Word" to compare the words of other mullahs, imams, etc.


I think, if the "A Common Word" authors are in fact the identified leaders, officially or unofficially, then that would equate, yes. I'd also be far more hopeful if these religious leaders are representative of true Moslem thought.
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#868832 - 12/07/07 04:29 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Quote:
sorry boys, Pat Robertson doesn't count, as he is not affiliated with any organized religious organization

what "religious" organization do the various al qaedas belong to? are they one?

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#868834 - 12/07/07 04:30 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
TMOS, if you cannot compare to a supreme leader is Islam, then Happy should not have attempted to make such a comparison.


Happy recognized that the leadership structure in Islam differs from Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
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#868844 - 12/07/07 04:34 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Sorry there Frank, I was just trying to point out a flaw in your purportation, or seeking for you to provide proof otherwise...

Quote:
What is your opinion on Christian fundamentalists ,iAutomate, who follow the Bible word for word? Or Jewish fundamentalists who follow the Torah word for word?



of course, I've re-posed the question to better suit yours and Barbie's theories, but have yet to see either provide proof. And yo use your words, be cautious of using blanket generalization
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#868845 - 12/07/07 04:34 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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The Barbarian has hit upon (wittingly or unwittingly, I don't know) 90% of the problem with extremist Islamic thought - there is no hierarchy to keep folks "on the reservation", to point out that so-and-so is outside mainstream Islamic thought...after all, what is mainstream and what isn't?

Islam needs a reformation.

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#868847 - 12/07/07 04:35 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote:
what "religious" organization do the various al qaedas belong to? are they one?


No one is speaking of Al Queda...try not to Mexico this up with your Ronisms...
Last edited by HappyGilmore; 12/07/07 04:35 PM.
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#868852 - 12/07/07 04:38 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Jokerman
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Quote:
Islam needs a reformation

do you think that the type of anti-muslim sentiment exhibited in this thread helps push them toward fixing the error in their ways or does it aid them in hunkering down to because the christian/jewish enemy is at the door?

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#868854 - 12/07/07 04:39 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Happy, I answered you question. So deal with what I said.
And you're right. No one here is talking about Al Qaeda. They are just trying to make it seem that the entire Muslim religion is akin to Al Qaeda!

Whatever, it is Friday. I have a long day. I'll be in the bar.

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