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#868257 - 12/06/07 10:00 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
Imagine Offline
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iAutomate, here are a few Biblical passages to mull over. This is in regards to your question about which Holy Book still teaches to kill. I ask, because the literal word of the passages has not changed...

Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword . . . "

Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . "

Exodus 32:27 "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."

Deut 21:10-12 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; "

Joshua 7:15 "And it shall be, that he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire . . . "

Exodus 31:15 " . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

Deut 21:21 "And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die . . . "

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#868265 - 12/06/07 10:06 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Originally Posted By: iAutomate
AML, thanks for answering. There were no wrong answers, by the way. I was just looking for the opinions of others.

For the first question, you're mistaking a society with a community. Obviously, the muslim communities in the US and other western socieities don't do this. But they do in muslim socieities.

Well, which Muslim societies do you mean? I've been in 4 predominantly Muslim countries in the last year; Egypt, Senegal, Morocco and Turkey. I can safely say that in Turkey and Senegal, you'd get no cr@p for preaching the Gospel anywhere in the country. In Morocco you'd be safe in Casablanca, but I wouldn't try it in Rabat. In Egypt you'd be fine in Alexandria, and probably Cairo. There's no such thing as a single "Muslim society".

Originally Posted By: iAutomate

Second question, to clarify, if trouble meant death, what would your answer be.

"Trouble" can always mean death. And I already answered, I wouldn't wear that shirt in any of the cities you named.

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#868272 - 12/06/07 10:10 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
iAutomate, here are a few Biblical passages to mull over. This is in regards to your question about which Holy Book still teaches to kill. I ask, because the literal word of the passages has not changed...

Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword . . . "

Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . "

Exodus 32:27 "And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."

Deut 21:10-12 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; "

Joshua 7:15 "And it shall be, that he that is taken with the accursed thing shall be burnt with fire . . . "

Exodus 31:15 " . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

Deut 21:21 "And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die . . . "


Except that no one today is advocating the carrying out of these urgings among Jews and Christians, and further, these had specific historical circumstances during warring peiods (except for the passage on sabbath work).

IA was referring to those Moslems that do advocate killing in furtherance of Dar-Al-Islam today. Again, certainly not all Moslems, but there are those that do, today.

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#868423 - 12/07/07 01:32 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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I don't know why you guys keeping bringing all this biblical stuff up. I KNOW it's there because I've read it, but when was the last time you heard of anybody following these "literal" words and passages? There are muslims TODAY that are following the "literal" words and passages of the Koran.
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#868429 - 12/07/07 02:04 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Off the top of my head, September 2006 in Jakarta. (To save you from looking it up, Christian militants beheaded 2 Muslim fishermen.)

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#868448 - 12/07/07 03:13 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Off the top of my head, September 2006 in Jakarta. (To save you from looking it up, Christian militants beheaded 2 Muslim fishermen.)


Just to add a little perspective as to why that happened (and I am in now way justifying the retaliation of the Christians, but showing why they get pushed to a point of despair and take drastic action):

Six Islamic militants were sentenced to up to 19 years in prison Monday for terrorist acts in eastern Indonesia that include beheading three Christian schoolgirls and shooting to death a priest.

The harshest sentences were given to Abdul Muis bin Kamarudin and Rahman Kalahe, who were convicted in the 2006 killing of Rev. Irianto Kongkoli, and in the beheadings in 2005. Both crimes were in Central Sulawesi province.

The men were also punished for the shootings of two high school students, and the bombing of a busy New Year's market that killed eight people on Dec 31, 2005.

Kongkoli was shot in the head while shopping with his wife in Palu, the provincial capital of Central Sulawesi.

Alleged members of the al-Qaida-linked Jemaah Islamiyah network left a handwritten note close to the bodies of the girls, vowing more killings to avenge the deaths of Muslims in earlier sectarian violence on Sulawesi island.

The beheadings gave fresh impetus to the country's war on terrorism and was followed by scores of arrests.

The South Jakarta District Court sentenced four others to jail terms ranging from 10 and 18 years for bomb-making and plotting attacks against Christians, applying a harsh anti-terror law imposed after the 2002 Bali bombings that killed 202 people, mostly foreigners.
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#868450 - 12/07/07 03:21 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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An eye for an eye?

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#868451 - 12/07/07 03:23 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
An eye for an eye?


Or maybe pent up frustration at the ongoing and unmitigated brutality.
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#868456 - 12/07/07 03:44 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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semantics.
they do it, so we'll do it.
eye for an eye.

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#868457 - 12/07/07 03:47 AM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
semantics.
they do it, so we'll do it.
eye for an eye.


I am not justifying it the Christians striking back that way, but let me hear as much angst toward the Muslims who behead schoolgirls and priests as there is toward the Christians who finally retaliated. Then I'll recognize some objectivity.
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#868489 - 12/07/07 12:20 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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It couldn't possibly be true that they found justification in Romans 13:1-5 or in Revelations 13:10. No, that couldn't possibly be it.

And they most certainly had no involvement in the Istiqlal mosque bombing. None whatsoever...

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#868535 - 12/07/07 01:53 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Frank - just to help you make your point, can you please point out the last time the Pope or any member of the College of Cardinals advocated that Catholics kill in the Name of God or the Bible?

And when Queen Elizabeth, as the Head of the Church of England, advocated the same of their followers.

Or when Gordon Hinckley (he's the heard of the LDS, better known to you as Mormons) did this.

Thanks Frank...

And Barbie's post, as usual, draws conclusions based on the actions of individuals, rather than on instructions from a Church Head.
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#868571 - 12/07/07 02:17 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
It couldn't possibly be true that they found justification in Romans 13:1-5 or in Revelations 13:10. No, that couldn't possibly be it.

And they most certainly had no involvement in the Istiqlal mosque bombing. None whatsoever...

Did the leaders of their particular church encourage them to carry out any such acts, whether with these readings or not?
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#868590 - 12/07/07 02:29 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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not in my sunday church service, but maybe us lutherans have a different bible.....
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#868595 - 12/07/07 02:31 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? kms
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Originally Posted By: kms
not in my sunday church service, but maybe us lutherans have a different bible.....


I didn't know you attended services in Jakarta.

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#868606 - 12/07/07 02:36 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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I was making a reference towards chritianity itself and the different interpretations of the bible itself
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#868614 - 12/07/07 02:42 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Everyone has a breaking point. Every nation, every people. People usually confuse what they like to call "intolerance", which the bleeding hearts in the country have turned into a bad word, from just simply saying enough is enough.

If five nights a week I watched the news and saw that muslim terrorists had killed school children in the name of Allah, then I said something as "extreme" as: I'm sick of this! I don't want to hear about muslims!", I would be labeled as an intolerant biggot.
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#868627 - 12/07/07 02:49 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
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Yes, you would be labeled that iAutomate because you said you're tired of hearing about MUSLIMS, not that you were tired of hearing about MUSLIM TERRORISTS. There is a difference.

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#868643 - 12/07/07 02:57 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Frank - kindly answer my question...thanks
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#868741 - 12/07/07 03:47 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Happy, I've not heard any of those you mention call for blood.

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#868749 - 12/07/07 03:52 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
Happy, I've not heard any of those you mention call for blood.


In return for answering *his* question, shouldn't GilmoreGirl show where the head of the Islamic faith, (assuming he can even name the head of the Islamic faith), has called for blood?

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#868752 - 12/07/07 03:53 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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AML, I proposed asking that, but I figured there'd be no legitimate answer so I just rolled it off my back. It is Friday afterall.

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#868756 - 12/07/07 03:55 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
AML, I proposed asking that, but I figured there'd be no legitimate answer so I just rolled it off my back. It is Friday afterall.


You make an excellent point! I'll stand you a drink at the bar!

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#868759 - 12/07/07 03:56 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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Haha. Merci!

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#868763 - 12/07/07 03:56 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hrothgar Geiger
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No, but various Imams and Sunni Clerics have. I seem to recall Ayatollah Khomeni, I also recall a major Imam in Iraq who causes alot of problems with Shia Militias, resulting in enormous bloodshed and suffering. And the Blind Mosque leader who encouraged the First World Trade Center Bombing in 1993.
Last edited by The Man of Steel; 12/07/07 03:57 PM.
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