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#868855 - 12/07/07 04:39 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
Quote:
what "religious" organization do the various al qaedas belong to? are they one?


No one is speaking of Al Queda...try not to Mexico this up with your Ronisms...

happy, you distinguished robertson and his followers from organized religion. though different in actions, i see no real difference in structure or ideology between his "followers" or subscribers and those of al qaeda.

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#868859 - 12/07/07 04:40 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
Islam needs a reformation

do you think that the type of anti-muslim sentiment exhibited in this thread helps push them toward fixing the error in their ways or does it aid them in hunkering down to because the christian/jewish enemy is at the door?


The reason the Christian / Jewish "enemy" <pathetic use of the word, BTW> is "at the door" <man, I hate using your poor choices of words> is because of the actions of some of their members.
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#868867 - 12/07/07 04:45 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote:
those of al qaeda


I'm sorry Ron, but your use of Al-Queda is a poor analogy. You see Ron, Al-Queda is not a religion.

I'll post a small quote from your favorite research vessel...wikipedia

Quote:
Al-Qaeda is an international alliance of Islamic militant organizations founded in 1988


Thanks for playing today, and we have some lovely door prizes for your participation.
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#868882 - 12/07/07 04:50 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
Islam needs a reformation

do you think that the type of anti-muslim sentiment exhibited in this thread helps push them toward fixing the error in their ways or does it aid them in hunkering down to because the christian/jewish enemy is at the door?


The reason the Christian / Jewish "enemy" <pathetic use of the word, BTW> is "at the door" <man, I hate using your poor choices of words> is because of the actions of some of their members.

you focused on the wrong part, marky. try "the type of anti-muslim sentiment exhibited in this thread".

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#868885 - 12/07/07 04:52 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Quote:
Al-Qaeda is an international alliance of Islamic militant organizations

huh. and you claimed that robertson's followers weren't part of an organized relgious organization.

were you just hoisted by your own pittard?

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#868891 - 12/07/07 04:57 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ron Mexico
Quote:
Islam needs a reformation

do you think that the type of anti-muslim sentiment exhibited in this thread helps push them toward fixing the error in their ways or does it aid them in hunkering down to because the christian/jewish enemy is at the door?


What I've seen on this thread is (a) an attempt to stir an argument about a problem that doesn't exist to any material degree, (b) typical liberal whining about the need to be politically correct and avoid speaking truth, lest we give Muslims a reason to hate us (an implicitly racist opinion, by the way), and (c) very limited evidence of any actual anti-Muslim sentiment in the US. Funny how the ideology of nuance can't employ it when interpreting the statements of mere political opponents in this country, but have no problem applying it to those who would kill them.

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#868892 - 12/07/07 04:58 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: Snow Miser
Yes, you would be labeled that iAutomate because you said you're tired of hearing about MUSLIMS, not that you were tired of hearing about MUSLIM TERRORISTS. There is a difference.


See what I mean? That's how people get labeled by political correctness. And, Snow, it's no surprise to me that you were able to point that out. If anybody in this country misspeaks or doesn't convey their meaning in the EXACT WAY AS TO NOT OFFEND ANYBODY, you get jumped on. You read what I wrote and immediately jumped at the chance to point out that I'm generalizing.

Thanks for taking the bait!
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#868898 - 12/07/07 05:03 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Hated By Some
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
no Ron, I said don't use Robertson as he is not affiliated with an organized church, and using the term Christianity is too broad sweeping. Maybe my re-posing the question was done after your thong was wadded up tightly and you couldn't take the time to read it all, as you were anticipating with glee how you would impress us with your wisdom, but I never mentioned "followers" of Robertson at all.

You see Ron, the original arguement that Frank made was the comparison to other organized religions. Robertson is not affiliated with an organized religion, which is why I said to exclude him. I hope I've made this simple enough that even you can understand it, but feel free to PM me (like you usually do) when you struggle with your comprehension issues.
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#868907 - 12/07/07 05:10 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore

And try not to use the all-encompassing "Christian" or "Christianity" as this word has been perverted by many a person who claims to be that, when in reality it is a label they are hiding behind.


Irony, thy name is GilmoreGirl.

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#868909 - 12/07/07 05:11 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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What is worse Auto? Me pointing out that you're generalizing, or the fact that you still are showing your disgusting bias?

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#868916 - 12/07/07 05:16 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Jokerman
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Quote:
very limited evidence of any actual anti-Muslim sentiment in the US.

there seemed to be quite a few people coming to iautomate's defense.

Quote:
those who would kill them

i know for sure that i was applying it to extremeists.

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#868917 - 12/07/07 05:16 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Barbie - I'm sure this is lost on you, but the Imperial Knights of the Ku Klux Klan reports to be a Christian organization, as does the Aryan Brotherhood. Warren Jeffs claims to have been a follower of the Book of Mormon. David Koresh calimed to be following the Word of God. Yet none of these is an "organized" religion. Is it starting to get through to you why I said to exclude the term "Christianity?" If you're still befuddled, I can include you in the comprehension PM that Ron started...
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#868918 - 12/07/07 05:19 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Quote:
Robertson is not affiliated with an organized religion, which is why I said to exclude him

so robertson isn't associated with christianity?

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#868947 - 12/07/07 05:38 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Imagine
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Snow, do you like showing your bias? You sure seem to.

I've already stated in this thread that I've conceded not all Muslims are bad. You should have read that, which would tell you that I'm not biased about ALL muslims.

PLUS, I now know FOR SURE that you don't care what I post you just want to lash at me - because I told you at the end of my last post that you took the bait. I deliberately generalized to prove a point about those who speak off the cuff.
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#868951 - 12/07/07 05:41 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
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At any rate, to give my opinion about the original question of the thread: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech?

In my opinion, yes it should. The U.S. is about freedom of speech. If people can speak their anti-American rhetoric all day without being silenced, then we should be free to speak out about anything.
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#869003 - 12/07/07 06:13 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
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Originally Posted By: iAutomate
At any rate, to give my opinion about the original question of the thread: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech?

In my opinion, yes it should. The U.S. is about freedom of speech. If people can speak their anti-American rhetoric all day without being silenced, then we should be free to speak out about anything.


This is the most accurate post in this entire thread. If the U.S doesn't tolerate any particular type of speech, then we are no longer a free country and the first amendment might as well be written in pencil. The other side of freedom of speech, which too many people forget and let their emotions get in the way of, is that people will say things you don't like or agree with. One person's speech is no more protected than anyone else's.
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#869011 - 12/07/07 06:21 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? iAutomate
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Originally Posted By: iAutomate
AML and Ron, and Straw I'm calling you out -

No sarcasm, please, if you would just answer the following questions. And if you don't, then I'll know (and everyone else here) never to take you seriously again because you don't speak what you really believe. You just like to argue to please yourselves.

1. In which society are you most likely to get your head chopped off for trying to convert other faiths to Christianity:

a. Hindu society
b. Jewish society
c. Buddhist society
d. Muslim society

2. If you were wearing a T-shirt that says "I am a Christian. My God is the Almighty and only true God" (and remember, if you're Christian this is what you should believe) where would you least like to be standing:

a. Downtown Ho Chi Min City
b. Downtown Kabul
c. Downtown New Delhi
d. Downtown Jerusalem

3. Which Holy Book still teaches to kill

a. The Holy Bible
b. The Koran
c. The Tanakh
d. the teachings of Buddha



And I am calling you out that we all know you are xenophobic.

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#869046 - 12/07/07 06:49 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Quote:
And try not to use the all-encompassing "Christian" or "Christianity" as this word has been perverted by many a person who claims to be that, when in reality it is a label they are hiding behind.


Exactly, just as Islamic terrorists do with Islam.

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#869069 - 12/07/07 07:02 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Yossarian
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Exactly, just as Islamic terrorists do with Islam


you're going to have to show me proof of that. I'm not aware of any Islaminc terrorist that is "hiding" behind his religion. he/she is fervent in his/her belief and that they are doing as Islam demands. Though barbie and and Frank contend Christians do the same, I've yet to see either give proof of people killing for Christianity...
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#869119 - 12/07/07 07:38 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? straw
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xenophobia - an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

Isn't it reasonable to deduce that more followers of Islam are more likely to harm you for their beliefs, let alone yours? There are many that wouldn't but there are equally many that would. C'mon, given what you've seen going on in the world recently. Are the Buddhists killing people in the name of Buddha?

Anyway, you people keep hashing out this "hate" thing and I keep telling you I don't hate anybody. You don't think I wish the world was all at peace? Remember that Coke commercial during Christmas they used to play when we were young? I'd want that more than anything in the world right now. But, right now, there are those who don't. It's that simple.
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#869124 - 12/07/07 07:40 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? HappyGilmore
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Quote:
In the wake of the September 11 attacks, President Bush moved quickly to dismiss al-Qaeda operatives as part of the lunatic fringe, religious usurpers bent on misrepresenting and "hijacking" Islam to serve terrorism.1 This characterization was echoed in the Muslim world, where an assortment of government officials, religious scholars and opposition figures fervidly denounced the killing of civilians as un-Islamic.2 Abdulaziz bin Abdullah al-Ashaykh, the mufti of Saudi Arabia, argued that "hijacking planes, terrorizing innocent people and shedding blood constitute a form of injustice that cannot be tolerated by Islam, which views them as gross crimes and sinful acts."3 Muhammed Sayyid al-Tantawi, the rector of al-Azhar University in Cairo, issued a similar condemnation: "Attacking innocent people is not courageous, it is stupid and will be punished on the day of judgment. . . . It's not courageous to attack innocent children, women and civilians. It is courageous to protect freedom, it is courageous to defend oneself and not to attack."4 Shaikh Yussuf al-Qaradawi, a prominent Islamic scholar and television personality from Qatar, emphasized that "Islam, the religion of tolerance, holds the human soul in high esteem, and considers the attack against innocent human beings a grave sin."5

Even Islamic fundamentalist groups issued sharp denunciations. Forty-six leaders representing an assortment of Islamist movements and groups signed a letter opposed to the attacks:


The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States, which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms. This is grounded in the Noble Laws of Islam, which forbid all forms of attacks on innocents. God Almighty says in the Holy Quran: "No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another" (Surah al-Isra 17:15).6


Signatories included the general guide of the Muslim Brotherhood of Egypt, the amir of the Jamaat-i-Islami in Pakistan and Ahmad Yassin, the founder of Hamas.


Here is an article about the use of religion by fundamentalist groups like al Qaeda that explains their view that violence is acceptable in contradiction to those mentioned above:

Middle East Policy Council paper

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#869137 - 12/07/07 07:48 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Yossarian
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The founder of one of the most violent and brutal terrorist organizations in the world signs a letter denouncing terrorism and we are suppose to believe it? Good grief.
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#869155 - 12/07/07 07:56 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Blade Scrapper
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But we shouldn't fear them, you see...that's xenophobic.
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#869163 - 12/07/07 07:59 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: Swimware
The founder of one of the most violent and brutal terrorist organizations in the world signs a letter denouncing terrorism and we are suppose to believe it? Good grief.

After all, Yassar Arafat was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, so should this surprise us.

But for better reading, and what i took to be a sincere document, read the link "Muslim-Christian Handshake." That seemed a sincere ecumenical document for Moslems, Jews and Christians.
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#869172 - 12/07/07 08:01 PM Re: Does the U.S. tolerate anti-Muslim speech? TheManofSteel
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
"I don't fear them for their beliefs, I fear them for what they do because of their beliefs..."

I don't recall who said that, but it sure makes sense to me
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