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#868990 - 12/07/07 06:01 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack Ops
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Oooh.. oooh! Except Ron Paul.

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#869025 - 12/07/07 06:36 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack Ops
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Originally Posted By: Yukon Cornelius
I don't only complain about the current President.


It's all I hear. Good luck with that whole Ron Paul thing.

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#869029 - 12/07/07 06:38 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: Tom Thumb
Originally Posted By: Yukon Cornelius
I don't only complain about the current President.


It's all I hear. Good luck with that whole Ron Paul thing.


You actually don't hear much at all from me.


And thanks. Goodness knows we'll need it.

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#869043 - 12/07/07 06:47 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack Jokerman
The Incredible ComplyGuy Offline
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The Incredible ComplyGuy
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Posts: 7,350
The he11 of suburbia
Originally Posted By: Tom Thumb
Originally Posted By: Yukon Cornelius
My point is that Congress hasn't authorized a *war* since 1942.



Congress hasn't included the words "I DECLARE WAR" as if it was a child's card game since the establishment of the United Nations. It has authorized the use of force on multiple occassions in manners consistent with the rights of nations under the UN charter, including twice against Iraq. If you have complaints about undeclared wars, you ought to be whining about the previous President more than you are about this one.


I have a problem with undeclared wars regardless of the administration they were conducted under. Authorization to use force is too vague, which is what got us into Iraq -- Congress possibly having a different understanding than the president's intent. I think the constitution defines powers with 18th century assumptions about how wars would be conducted -- that the president acted as "commander in chief" within the scope of a congressionally declared war, not to get around congress. It's a loophole that needs to be fixed. I think the "commander-in-chief" role should be separated from the presidency and be made a stand-alone appointed military role reporting to one or both houses of congress.

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#869047 - 12/07/07 06:49 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack The Incredible ComplyGuy
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Originally Posted By: The Incredible ComplyGuy
I have a problem with undeclared wars regardless of the administration they were conducted under. Authorization to use force is too vague, which is what got us into Iraq -- Congress possibly having a different understanding than the president's intent. I think the constitution defines powers with 18th century assumptions about how wars would be conducted -- that the president acted as "commander in chief" within the scope of a congressionally declared war, not to get around congress. It's a loophole that needs to be fixed. I think the "commander-in-chief" role should be separated from the presidency and be made a stand-alone appointed military role reporting to one or both houses of congress.


I knew I had a good reason for liking you.

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#869059 - 12/07/07 06:54 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack TheManofSteel
Yossarian Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Originally Posted By: RebekahL CRCM
What really peeves me is that this "Day Which Will Live in Infamy" is receiving very little news coverage. CNN is completely silent about today being the 66th anniversary of the attack. But, they were sure to post a top news article about the Commodore 64 computer being around for 25 years.

What do you expect from Communist News Network, alias Cinton Noise Network?
By the way Rebekah, thats a gorgeous avatar? Do you live in the Rockies?


The truth:

CNN Pearl Harbor story

CNN News for students

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#869070 - 12/07/07 07:03 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack The Incredible ComplyGuy
Yossarian Offline
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A declaration of war creates a state of war which is a recognized status under various international treaties. An authorization to use force, particularly one that only authorizes the use of force if necessary as was passed for Iraq, is not the same thing at all. This is what Bush said:

"Later this week, the United States Congress will vote on this matter. I have asked Congress to authorize the use of America's military, if it proves necessary, to enforce U.N. Security Council demands. Approving this resolution does not mean that military action is imminent or unavoidable."

Doesn't sound much like a declaration of war, does it?

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#869139 - 12/07/07 07:49 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack The Incredible ComplyGuy
Jokerman Offline
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Posts: 12,846
Quote:
Authorization to use force is too vague, which is what got us into Iraq -- Congress possibly having a different understanding than the president's intent.


Oh, please.

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#869141 - 12/07/07 07:50 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack The Incredible ComplyGuy
Jokerman Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,846
Quote:
Doesn't sound much like a declaration of war, does it?


So take the Bush administration to court and stop the war, Yoss.

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#869186 - 12/07/07 08:09 PM Re: FDR Speaks after Pearl Harbor Attack Yossarian
RebekahL CRCM Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 797
Big Sky Country
Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Originally Posted By: The Man of Steel
Originally Posted By: RebekahL CRCM
What really peeves me is that this "Day Which Will Live in Infamy" is receiving very little news coverage. CNN is completely silent about today being the 66th anniversary of the attack. But, they were sure to post a top news article about the Commodore 64 computer being around for 25 years.

What do you expect from Communist News Network, alias Cinton Noise Network?
By the way Rebekah, thats a gorgeous avatar? Do you live in the Rockies?


The truth:

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/07/pearl.harbor.ap/index.html?iref=newssearch]CNN Pearl Harbor story[/url]

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/studentnews/12/06/transcript.fri/index.html?iref=newssearch]CNN News for students[/url]


The truth (unspun, that is), is that Yoss only found these articles by doing a search for them. Isn't that a pretty crummy way of commemorating the lives of those 2400 individuals killed in the attack, not to mention the history-altering course it caused for our country? Burying the articles so that nobody but a researcher can find them may not be acting in a "completely silent" manner, but it is pretty danged close.
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