Thread Options
#935166 - 04/02/08 09:39 PM Dispute against ATM withdrawals
rzerm Offline
New Poster
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2
I have a customer that wants to dispute atm withdrawals. She is firm in her thoughts that no one has her PIN. She says that she even has her card. However, she supsects the grandaugther took it and placed back before it was noticed. Since her grandaughter takes her to places like the pharmacy and grocery store she believes that is how the PIN was obtained (she pulled the over the shoulder move).. Not sure what my choices are on handling this aside from taking the loss. The amount is less than $500. any ideas....
Last edited by rzerm; 04/02/08 09:52 PM.
Return to Top
eBanking / Technology
#935203 - 04/02/08 10:20 PM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals rzerm
Fork Ate Spoon Offline
Diamond Poster
Fork Ate Spoon
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,261
Between Here and There
Tell her that you require a police report be filed and that you're going to request the tape from where the withdrawal was made so you can prosecute whomever the person is that "stole her card and pin". Since she suspects it was her granddaughter, which it probably was if Grams still has the card, then she probably won't proceed much further and the bank doesn't refund.. It's a problem her and granddaughter need to deal with after that.. My opinion.
Last edited by Fork Ate Spoon; 04/02/08 10:25 PM.
Return to Top
#935208 - 04/02/08 10:28 PM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals Fork Ate Spoon
John Burnett Offline
10K Club
John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39,072
Cape Cod
PLEASE -- Let's stop BSing customers with the line that a police report is required. Reg E doesn't provide for it, and mandating a police report has a chilling effect on a consumer's exercise of his/her rights.

You can tell Gram the truth -- If anyone can be linked to any of the transactions with an ATM photo, or otherwise, you will have to honor Gram's claim that the transactions were unauthorized, but you will pursue whatever legal avenues you have to recover your funds from the thief -- even if it's her granddaughter. If Gram decides to withdraw her claim, fine. If not, you have to proceed.

You have to research Gram's claim, whether she provides you a police report, a written claim, or nothing on paper at all.
John S. Burnett
Fighting for Compliance since 1976
Bankers' Threads User #8

Return to Top
#935240 - 04/02/08 11:05 PM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals John Burnett
rzerm Offline
New Poster
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2
A dispute like this claimed as not authorized will be denied in no time by our dispute rep....(we had a similar scenario before: truck driver, wallet stolen, PIN was his B-day year) and that was denied and was less $200......I am thinking that our only option here would be to jump thru hoops and attempt to get tape....

I did give her the "once you sign this you are allowing me to take action regardless of who is behind this" 1st she was hesitant but then she agreed..
Last edited by rzerm; 04/02/08 11:07 PM.
Return to Top
#935275 - 04/03/08 12:16 AM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals rzerm
rlcarey Offline
10K Club
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 76,033
Galveston, TX
Whether or not your "dispute rep" (whoever that may be) denies the claim or not, the bank has to make the customer whole under Regulation E unless you can prove that the transactions "were" authorized by the customer. Banks have to realize that these issues are part of the cost of doing business if you choose to issue debit cards.
The opinions expressed here should not be construed to be those of my employer:

Return to Top
#935332 - 04/03/08 10:01 AM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals rlcarey
David Dickinson Offline
10K Club
David Dickinson
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 18,749
Central City, NE
Just so it is clear, John and Randy are absolutely right.

This has to be the biggest area of confusion for bankers (Yes, more than HMDA and Reg CC!). There are many ways to steal money out of your account without having your card &/or PIN. You must investigate all claims. Unless you can prove the customer made the transaction, you must provide restitution to the consumer. If you can prosecute someone in the process, go for it. If not, it's (as Randy said) a cost of doing business.
David Dickinson

Return to Top
#935537 - 04/03/08 02:35 PM Re: Dispute against ATM withdrawals David Dickinson
Compliancer Offline
Gold Star
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 334
San Francisco, CA
Again, John, Randy, and David are correct.

What you can do in relation to a police report is request that the customer file one. Reg. E does not prevented you from making the request but it must be presented to the customer as a "request" not a "requirement". If you explain what filing a police report can mean to your ability to get the bad guy then it may encourage the customer to assist you.

In any event, lack of a police report is not proper grounds for denying a proper Reg. E fraud claim.
My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of all the voices in my head.

Return to Top

Moderator:  Andy_Z