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#942352 - 04/15/08 06:00 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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#942355 - 04/15/08 06:02 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Ron, I posted a letter to the editor from a WHITE member of the Rev's Church. The usual suspects here dismissed it as the member being a "political ally" of Obama or so...

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#942368 - 04/15/08 06:11 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Becka Marr
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Originally Posted By: Becka Marr
Originally Posted By: rainman
Don't you think he should have seen that a comment like that would be construed (or misconstrued) by many people across the country?


Ah, so then you prefer the sugar-coated politically correct doublespeak that is meant to eliminate any worry about whether something could be taken the wrong way.



I prefer straight talk to sugar coating. In this case, the problem isn't that he was giving us the "straight scoop." It's that he made condescending assumptions about why some people believe what they do. Even if that is not really his mindset, as an elected official, I would hope that he would have the political awareness to know how his comment might be taken. As others have pointed out, that's an important skill in a president - one that he seems to demonstrate with increasing frequency that he lacks.

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Do you judge everyone by the company they keep, or do you suppose anyone has merit of their own? I'm sure we will remember to let it reflect poorly on you when one of your friends says something we don't like.


That depends on the reason for the judgment. I'm not evaluating whether to be friends with him - he's running for the highest elected office we have. I make judgments about him based on every bit of information I have about him, including his resume, his voting record, his public statements, and yes - the company he keeps. You better believe I would have questions for any of my elected officials who thought it was appropriate to be on a board with someone who has bombed government buildings and banks and whose only regret is that he didn't do more of it.
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#942369 - 04/15/08 06:11 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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neo, arguing with these people about a "liberal" makes me feel like sisyphus.

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#942373 - 04/15/08 06:13 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
You didn't answer the question. You're putting forth a claim that Obama echoed Reverend Wright's remarks, even going so far as claiming he shout a great "AMEN" in support of them. That is wrong.


Even if he's not, given his position as a public figure, he has the authority and position to either a) stand there and let others do it and let it fester, or b) do something about it.

What he effectively did was stand there as a leader of his community and allow someone else to continue to shout incendiary comments that increase, rather than decrease the racial divide in his community and did nothing. Is he a leader we can count on, or a coward?

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#942374 - 04/15/08 06:13 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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You have syphilis? Must have been the toilet seat.
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#942375 - 04/15/08 06:14 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
neo, arguing with these people about a "liberal" makes me feel like a sissy.


fixed
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#942378 - 04/15/08 06:15 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? rainman
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@ rainier and peeps.

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#942403 - 04/15/08 06:40 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Originally Posted By: straw
"is white culture in american history esentially the same as black history or is there at least a basis for rejecting your mirror image hypothetical?"

Explain how this relates to Wright personally.

umm, we were talking about wright's rhetoric. do i need to make a flow chart for you?


So Mr Wright is not a racist because of the differences between white and black history, but other African Amercians may be racists depsite the differences between white and black history?

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#942416 - 04/15/08 06:50 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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no, obama is not racist. the difference in history affect why wright perhaps has the perspective that he does.

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#942421 - 04/15/08 06:54 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
no, obama is not racist. the difference in history affect why wright perhaps has the perspective that he does.



Is Wright a racist or does the difference in history "excuse" his views?

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#942428 - 04/15/08 07:02 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
no, obama is not racist. the difference in history affect why wright perhaps has the perspective that he does.


I was robbed at gunpoint by 2 african american men. Does that excuse me if I decide to be hateful towards them and preach to other whites that they are keeping this country down?

At least my "history" is recent and personal.

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#942479 - 04/15/08 07:49 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
DSchrute = Karl Rove.


"unAmerican bull@*$! artist"?
Please provide examples instead of using 2004 GOP spin terms.


Which part? Regardless of whether you dismess all the internet rumors about him not wearing the flag or putting his hand on his heart or whatever, we do know that his wife has only recently been proud to be an American, and his pastor/advisor/friend/mentor, whatever is very outspoken against the country. I'm sure you will say that he is totally against the views of the people closest to him.

As far as the bull@%&* artist part, let's face it, his major accomplishment to date has been sounding good reading a speach at the Democratic convention a few years ago, and his uncanny ability to slip the word 'change' into any sentence. And he's young and handsome, which is why I assume young people are so enamored by him.

As far as guns and religion not affecting people's lives, what planet, or bleeding heart liberal city, do you live on/in? There are many people in this country whose lives revolve around religion. And let's face it, to many, being able to protect their own family is even more important than national defense.

Obama, and a few of you, have basically stereotyped us as a bunch a illiterate rubes with a shotgun in one hand, and a rifle in the other. So I guess I can assume that you are all pinko, liberals in sandals and hemp shirts, that spend all of your time studying Scientology, recycling your socks, and apoligizing for being American.

My main issue is the economy, which was really humming along until the Democrats took control of Congress.....coincidence, I don't think so.

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#942506 - 04/15/08 08:06 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
is advisor the same as decision-maker? do you think that ayers and wright are being given cabinet positions?

should obama's campaign strategy have focused around clearing up what cynics and spin doctors would impugn him with?


His spiritual advisor, but no I shouldn't be worried by a candidate who asks for advice from someone with his views.

If this was McCain, and his Reverand was found to be spouting racist and hateful rhetoric, do you honestly think you would say, oh well, I know McCain doesn't believe that and after all, that Reverand isn't going to get a cabinet post.


Straw, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think Rainman also hit the nail on the head. The issue is that Barak is an increasingly prominant and public figure, and represents himself with close friends and advisors very badly. It is a hallmark of his ability to be a President and YES if McCain had the same friends Ron would apply his double standard.
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#942508 - 04/15/08 08:08 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Bankster
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Originally Posted By: DSchrute
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
DSchrute = Karl Rove.


"unAmerican bull@*$! artist"?
Please provide examples instead of using 2004 GOP spin terms.


Which part? Regardless of whether you dismess all the internet rumors about him not wearing the flag or putting his hand on his heart or whatever, we do know that his wife has only recently been proud to be an American, and his pastor/advisor/friend/mentor, whatever is very outspoken against the country. I'm sure you will say that he is totally against the views of the people closest to him.

As far as the bull@%&* artist part, let's face it, his major accomplishment to date has been sounding good reading a speach at the Democratic convention a few years ago, and his uncanny ability to slip the word 'change' into any sentence. And he's young and handsome, which is why I assume young people are so enamored by him.

As far as guns and religion not affecting people's lives, what planet, or bleeding heart liberal city, do you live on/in? There are many people in this country whose lives revolve around religion. And let's face it, to many, being able to protect their own family is even more important than national defense.

Obama, and a few of you, have basically stereotyped us as a bunch a illiterate rubes with a shotgun in one hand, and a rifle in the other. So I guess I can assume that you are all pinko, liberals in sandals and hemp shirts, that spend all of your time studying Scientology, recycling your socks, and apoligizing for being American.

My main issue is the economy, which was really humming along until the Democrats took control of Congress.....coincidence, I don't think so.


*ding* post of the week winner!
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#942512 - 04/15/08 08:11 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Bankster
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Originally Posted By: DSchrute


Obama, and a few of you, have basically stereotyped us as a bunch a illiterate rubes with a shotgun in one hand, and a rifle in the other. So I guess I can assume that you are all pinko, liberals in sandals and hemp shirts, that spend all of your time studying Scientology, recycling your socks, and apoligizing for being American.

My main issue is the economy, which was really humming along until the Democrats took control of Congress.....coincidence, I don't think so.


First off, if you HONESTLY think that Obama is viewing you as a, point blank, hillbilly then you've missed the point entirely. I cannot see how Obama has viewed anyone in that light.

Second, you want to blame the Democrats for the economy? HAHA! That is a good one. Because it is all Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid's fault. Riiiiiight.

Ok, I can see that there will be no serious or well thought out conversation here.

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#942518 - 04/15/08 08:14 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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I love the economy statement. These liberal dunces have been blaming bush for things set into motion for before him, its only fair to do the same back and forth right?
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#942521 - 04/15/08 08:16 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
if you HONESTLY think that Obama is viewing you as a, point blank, hillbilly then you've missed the point entirely. I cannot see how Obama has viewed anyone in that light.


You left out racist. Oh wait, that's not him, it's only his closest advisers who hate me for being white.

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#942568 - 04/15/08 08:54 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico

Ok, I can see that there will be no serious or well thought out conversation here.


Obviously, you never had any instruction in debate techniques, Neo. You are suppossed to argue FACTS vs FACTS. This is just a cheap shot and you know it. Stop railing at windmills and start telling us what you know Obama means by 'change' and what HE says in response to those who tell him he did more than 'misspeak' here. The man has admitted he's expressed these sentiments before and doesn't understand why he's taking such heat on it now. How do you defend that? Use FACTS now, not emotions.

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#942579 - 04/15/08 08:57 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Bankster
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Quote:
we do know that his wife has only recently been proud to be an American

is that what she really said?

maybe you *are* rove.

Quote:
whatever is very outspoken against the country

is he really so general? or is he more specific?

Quote:
being able to protect their own family is even more important than national defense.

my family has never owned a gun. we've always felt well-protected. economics plays a larger role. "south central" western PA must be a war zone...

Quote:
have basically stereotyped us as a bunch a illiterate rubes with a shotgun in one hand, and a rifle in the other

maybe more stereotyped as unable to comprehend plain language. he did say that because they felt helpless to to change the political landscape and depend on the government to be stewards of the economy so that is perhaps why they have hunkered down to focus on what they felt was under their own control.

Quote:
My main issue is the economy, which was really humming along until the Democrats took control of Congress.....coincidence, I don't think so.

because the economics of a housing and credit boom are so glib as to be explained by such a coincidence...

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#942591 - 04/15/08 09:02 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? B_F
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
if you HONESTLY think that Obama is viewing you as a, point blank, hillbilly then you've missed the point entirely. I cannot see how Obama has viewed anyone in that light.


You left out racist. Oh wait, that's not him, it's only his closest advisers who hate me for being white.


so you REALLY think obama is racist? yes or no will suffice.

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#942600 - 04/15/08 09:04 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Truffle Royale
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truffle, start reading his books/website/actually *listening* to his speeches and you will find out that his change isn't as vapid as you are implying. did YOU listen to how he has responded to the wright thing and the guns/religion thing?

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#942605 - 04/15/08 09:05 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Way, way south.

Ron, you may be more condescending than Obama, which is a major feat.

Quote:
is he really so general? or is he more specific?


And this may be your finest work.

Reminds me of that Seinfeld exchange between Jerry and Kramer:

"...or....am I so sane that I just blew your mind???"
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#942614 - 04/15/08 09:09 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? MB Guy
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care to elaborate, mark?

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#942617 - 04/15/08 09:10 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Yes, I did listen to what he said. And I've been listening to how he's been trying to explain what he said since then.

Neo already had me read his website. I came away feeling like it was a typical political website. It pushed all the right buttons and talked about 'change' but never got into what/where/how/when/why this change would happen.

This isn't my first time voting so I know a bit about what I'm reading and what is a real expectation of what will really happen after an election.

I don't need to read or listen to admonish you or Neo to debate facts here and get off the emotional roller-coaster. Pretend you're trying to convince your boss of something that you believe will really improve the bank for both employees and customers. That's really what all the candidates are trying to do is sell their ideas you know.

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