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#942740 - 04/15/08 11:24 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Price TheManofSteel
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"only" $4.60 per fill up will save me $160 in those four months, which I will use for other things (read to stimulate economy). Not something so small if you actually can think a little bigger...
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#942743 - 04/15/08 11:32 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! B_F
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan


It's not about $4.60. It's about perception. Without this step, gas prices will be over $3.50 a gallon for certain this summer. People are already looking at this and saying "I'm not going to take my vacation and leave town this year.".


Perception? Perception? Right because Joe Sixpack, who lost his job to India because of better profit opportunities for the company, is going to finally be able to afford that family vacation because John McCain is going to cut taxes for about 4 months. I'm sure he's thrilled to know that...


Joe Sixpack can spend his $4.60 per fillup savings on Iron City Beer. Why? Because frankly, if he can't hold a job, he isn't going to help the economy. This kind of tax cut to stimulate the economy isn't aimed at the wopping 4% of the population who are unemployed. It is aimed at people who WILL spend money.


What a small minded, ignorant viewpoint. If you had read my comment, I didn't claim that Joe Sixpack COULDN'T hold a job. I said that "they" sent Joe's job to India to make $$$ for the company at the expense of Joe. And nice to know you care so much about the unemployed, who, by the way, aren't the "welfare Mom" stereotypes I'm sure your ignorant viewpoint harps on.

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#942744 - 04/15/08 11:36 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Blessed
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Originally Posted By: Audit_gal
"only" $4.60 per fill up will save me $160 in those four months, which I will use for other things (read to stimulate economy). Not something so small if you actually can think a little bigger...


How are you going to stimulate the economy with $160?

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#942745 - 04/15/08 11:36 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Imagine
rainman Offline
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Quote:
What a small minded, ignorant viewpoint. If you had read my comment, I didn't claim that Joe Sixpack COULDN'T hold a job. I said that "they" sent Joe's job to India to make $$$ for the company at the expense of Joe


This is great! You guys are arguing about the job qualifications of an imaginary guy working for a make-believe company.

Maybe those are the "facts" Ron was talking about in the other thread.
Last edited by rainman; 04/15/08 11:38 PM.
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#942748 - 04/15/08 11:40 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! rainman
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Originally Posted By: rainman
Quote:
What a small minded, ignorant viewpoint. If you had read my comment, I didn't claim that Joe Sixpack COULDN'T hold a job. I said that "they" sent Joe's job to India to make $$$ for the company at the expense of Joe


This is great! You guys are arguing about the job qualifications of an imaginary guy working for a make-believe company.

Maybe those are the "facts" Ron was talking about in the other thread.


It is 7:38 on a Tuesday. Dancing with the Stars don't come home until 9. What else am I supposed to do?

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#942757 - 04/15/08 11:52 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! straw
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I understand that both Clinton and Obama want to renegotiate or pull out of NAFTA within 60 days if elected. (Ohio Debate Feb 26). The problem here is that Canadians of course will have some things to say about any renegotiation of the treaty. Canada is the largest supplier of oil to America in the world. The Alberta tar sands alone are estimated to contain 175 billion barrels of crude oil reserves. Under NAFTA's Chapter 6, the U.S has preferential access to Canadian oil and the Canadian government is prohibited from implementing any policies that interfere with that access. The same goes for virtually all types of energy from petrochemicals to uranium to electricity. Canadian consumers are already generally pissed that they pay much more for gasoline than American consumers. Today the average price of gasoline in Canada is $1.185 per litre, and after converting to Canadian currency and accounting for the different sized gallons, the U.S. average price works out to the equivalent of $.91 Canadian cents a litre. Where I live we're paying $1.24 right now. Of course one of the reasons Canadians pay more is due to higher government taxes on gasoline. But I don't think your average Canadian understands that. They just see that they are producing all this oil and exporting it to the US yet are paying more for it than those to whom they export! A new Environics poll released by the Council of Canadians today showed 89% of Canadians agree that Canada needs an energy policy that protects Canadian supplies and the environment even if it means placing restrictions on exports and foreign ownership. See: http://www.canadians.org/media/DI/2008/15-Apr-08.html
For this reason it is inevitable that any reopening of NAFTA will include a renegotiation of Chapter 6 of NAFTA, “Energy and Basic Petrochemicals.” As political pressure from Canadian voters increases, any Canadian government would likely score big points in doing away with Chapter 6. The following is an excerpt from CBC news Feb 28.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper issued a friendly warning to Democratic presidential hopefuls south of the border on Thursday, saying it would be a "mistake" for the United States to reopen the North American Free Trade Agreement. His comments, during Thursday's question period in the House of Commons, came two days after presidential hopefuls Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama threatened to pull the U.S. out of the 15-year-old free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico unless it's renegotiated" If any American government ever chose to make the mistake of opening that, we would have something we would want to talk about as well," the prime minister said with a smile, in response to a question from NDP Leader Jack Layton. He didn't elaborate, but earlier this week, Trade Minister David Emerson and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said U.S. officials should not forget the benefits of the agreement and hinted Canada could respond to a NAFTA pull-out by renegotiating U.S. access to Canada's oil.

In my opinion there is no other country besides the US that I would rather had preferential access to Canadian energy exports, but we have to ensure that it is a two way street and that NAFTA works for both of us. If it doesn't then by all means lets tear up the agreement and start from scratch.

Just my two bits worth.


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#942984 - 04/16/08 02:51 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! FBH
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Originally Posted By: FBH
Why not try investing in America's infrastructure and building lightrail systems between larger cities and suburbs. It'll put laborers to work building the lines and stations, and the finished product will reduce dependence on oil. Win/win if you ask me.


Who is going to spend the money, Mr. Libertarian?

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#942994 - 04/16/08 03:01 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Imagine
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FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Originally Posted By: Audit_gal
"only" $4.60 per fill up will save me $160 in those four months, which I will use for other things (read to stimulate economy). Not something so small if you actually can think a little bigger...


How are you going to stimulate the economy with $160?


That would buy groceries - not such small stuff for a family!
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#942999 - 04/16/08 03:04 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Jokerman
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Way, way south.
Did anyone see that article last week that they might have discovered VAST oil reserves in the west, I believe Montana?

Only read a quick excerpt, but that would rock if it materializes. Might buy us some time to continue to develop other forms of energy.

On a tangent, I really don't understand why they don't put solar panels/collectors on the roofs of all of these businesses/strip malls down here in FL since with all of the sunshine they could power the buildings and probably sell a lot of the electricity back to Florida Power and Light.
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#943013 - 04/16/08 03:12 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
On a tangent, I really don't understand why they don't put solar panels/collectors on the roofs of all of these businesses/strip malls down here in FL since with all of the sunshine they could power the buildings and probably sell a lot of the electricity back to Florida Power and Light.


The reason they don't do it is because they cost more than the power generated would save them.

If you want to get off oil, tax it. McCain's proposal to cut the price of a scarce resource doesn't make sense - it's sheer populism.

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#943077 - 04/16/08 03:46 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
On a tangent, I really don't understand why they don't put solar panels/collectors on the roofs of all of these businesses/strip malls down here in FL since with all of the sunshine they could power the buildings and probably sell a lot of the electricity back to Florida Power and Light.


The payback period for photo-voltaic solar panels is usually estimated to be 8 - 10 years. Maybe that's too long for the mall owners.

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#943082 - 04/16/08 03:48 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Price MB Guy
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Originally Posted By: MB Guy
Florida Power and Light.


Don't you mean Florida Flicker and Flash???
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#943093 - 04/16/08 03:52 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: MB Guy
On a tangent, I really don't understand why they don't put solar panels/collectors on the roofs of all of these businesses/strip malls down here in FL since with all of the sunshine they could power the buildings and probably sell a lot of the electricity back to Florida Power and Light.


The payback period for photo-voltaic solar panels is usually estimated to be 8 - 10 years. Maybe that's too long for the mall owners.


Is that the same for residences in the northeast? Do you know any tax incentive to help defray the cost of installation?
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#943174 - 04/16/08 05:10 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: TheChangeinator
Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: MB Guy
On a tangent, I really don't understand why they don't put solar panels/collectors on the roofs of all of these businesses/strip malls down here in FL since with all of the sunshine they could power the buildings and probably sell a lot of the electricity back to Florida Power and Light.


The payback period for photo-voltaic solar panels is usually estimated to be 8 - 10 years. Maybe that's too long for the mall owners.


Is that the same for residences in the northeast? Do you know any tax incentive to help defray the cost of installation?


Residential Solar PV Tax Credit, established in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, is a Federal tax credit. Some states have their own tax credits, but I don't know them.

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#943219 - 04/16/08 05:49 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Hrothgar Geiger
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Diesel sitting at $4.19 a gallon, 5 years ago it was $1.42. I use 12-13 gallons per week in 600 miles of commuting, so I would realize a $12.00 per month break. However, I also pay the gas for Ms.Gilmore, who drives a gas guzzling SUV to the tune of 30 gallons a week, and JuniorGilmore with his mid-size import of 16 gallons a week. They would have a collective savings of another $9.20 a week, or roughly $40 per month, for a grand total of $52 per month. Well, that could easily pay either a phone bill (home or cell), be dinner out for the Ms. and I, pay my dry-cleaning for 2 weeks, or easily cover what I spend for lunch every day. However, this also assumes that the price of diesel would not change during this time frame, which I don't think would happen.

bottom line, people who save it one place will generally spend it in another...
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#943227 - 04/16/08 05:56 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
for a grand total of $52 per month. Well, that could easily cover what I spend for lunch every day.


Lightweight. And with that, it's lunch time. I hope I have $80 bucks on me.
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#943252 - 04/16/08 06:15 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! HappyGilmore
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Originally Posted By: HappyGilmore
Diesel sitting at $4.19 a gallon, 5 years ago it was $1.42. I use 12-13 gallons per week in 600 miles of commuting, so I would realize a $12.00 per month break. However, I also pay the gas for Ms.Gilmore, who drives a gas guzzling SUV to the tune of 30 gallons a week, and JuniorGilmore with his mid-size import of 16 gallons a week. They would have a collective savings of another $9.20 a week, or roughly $40 per month, for a grand total of $52 per month. Well, that could easily pay either a phone bill (home or cell), be dinner out for the Ms. and I, pay my dry-cleaning for 2 weeks, or easily cover what I spend for lunch every day. However, this also assumes that the price of diesel would not change during this time frame, which I don't think would happen.

bottom line, people who save it one place will generally spend it in another...


That's exactly the point, you save it on the taxes on your gas, and spend it elsewhere, adding it directly to the economy instead of going to taxes.

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#943267 - 04/16/08 06:27 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! B_F
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I heard something very interesting regarding this proposed tax cut.

If this plan goes through, the US Government is expected to lose about $10 billion in revenue for the Federal Highway Administration for such things as, you know, highway repair.

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#943341 - 04/16/08 07:08 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Imagine
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under the Lone Star
sell the dang roads, make 'em all toll
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#943361 - 04/16/08 07:18 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Imagine
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
I heard something very interesting regarding this proposed tax cut.

If this plan goes through, the US Government is expected to lose about $10 billion in revenue for the Federal Highway Administration for such things as, you know, highway repair.


a portion of the money saved via this tax will be recouped in state and federal sales taxes, I bet they could easily transfer from one pot to another. (and have you driven the highways in this great nation lately? not that great...)
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#943479 - 04/16/08 08:40 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! HappyGilmore
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Let's just take over Iraq's oil and then invade Canada. Once we've defeated the Canadians (estimates of two weeks may be generous) we can turn on Old Mexico and completely dominate the North American continent. We'll have all the cheap oil and labor we need to do anything. We might also have socialized medicine.
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#943489 - 04/16/08 08:45 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Mint Julep
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Way, way south.
MJ, sounds like a great plan, and most of the people will be better off.
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#943993 - 04/17/08 01:20 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Mint Julep
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Originally Posted By: Mint Julep
Let's just take over Iraq's oil and then invade Canada. Once we've defeated the Canadians (estimates of two weeks may be generous) we can turn on Old Mexico and completely dominate the North American continent. We'll have all the cheap oil and labor we need to do anything. We might also have socialized medicine.


I'll pass socialized medicine, thank you very much. HMOs are bad enough. I prefer to chose my doctors, have the ability to change if I am not pleased with their results, and to be able to see a doctor when I need to rather than waiting forever.

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#944058 - 04/17/08 01:50 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! Imagine
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Quote:
How are you going to stimulate the economy with $160?


Neo - since $160 is such a paltry sum, PM me and I'll give you the address to send your savings to me
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#944095 - 04/17/08 02:12 PM Re: Democratic Nominees Denounce cutting Gas Prices! HappyGilmore
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It looks like Neo is either missing the point all together - or is making way more money than the rest of us and just doesn't need the $160 - please come back and join the real world with the rest of us
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