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#942797 - 04/16/08 03:31 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Pale Rider
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oh no! people who weren't going to vote for him aren't going to vote for him!

interesting though that obama did clarify but you STILL have to view it cynically. if this were a psychology professor saying this, there wouldn't be a peep. obama is a pretty bright guy. you have to be pretty bright to teach at chicago law so i am willing to give obama the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his analysis regarding the human psychology related to his hypotheses.

truffle, i'm sorry that i offended you. it just doesn't seem from your comments that there is any real indecision in there. best of luck finding what you are looking for in the remaining 2 candidates. seriously.

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#942860 - 04/16/08 01:38 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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hey Ron, is that the same school Anita Hill was a prof?
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#942861 - 04/16/08 01:40 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
obama is a pretty bright guy. you have to be pretty bright to teach at chicago law so i am willing to give obama the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his analysis regarding the human psychology related to his hypotheses.


OK, Ron, this is where I have a significant problem.

I don't care how intelligent he is, and I don't think he has a doctorate in psychology, so why is his thought process regarding "small town America" any more valid than mine or yours?

I'm not giving up my ability to think or take care of myself to someone else (excluding essential items such as the military, etc.), whether it be Obama or any other politician.

And I think that is an underlying issue between a liberal and a conservative at its very core, but that's a different conversation.
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#942987 - 04/16/08 02:56 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? MB Guy
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I ask Ron again,

Is Reverand Wright a racist?

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#942993 - 04/16/08 03:01 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
Bankster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
we do know that his wife has only recently been proud to be an American

is that what she really said?

maybe you *are* rove.

Quote:
whatever is very outspoken against the country

is he really so general? or is he more specific?

Quote:
being able to protect their own family is even more important than national defense.

my family has never owned a gun. we've always felt well-protected. economics plays a larger role. "south central" western PA must be a war zone...

Quote:
have basically stereotyped us as a bunch a illiterate rubes with a shotgun in one hand, and a rifle in the other

maybe more stereotyped as unable to comprehend plain language. he did say that because they felt helpless to to change the political landscape and depend on the government to be stewards of the economy so that is perhaps why they have hunkered down to focus on what they felt was under their own control.

Quote:
My main issue is the economy, which was really humming along until the Democrats took control of Congress.....coincidence, I don't think so.

because the economics of a housing and credit boom are so glib as to be explained by such a coincidence...



You're right, she said, for the first time in my life, I am proud to be an American. Apparently the shame of being an American has finally lifted.

To be less generally more specific, I can't confirm or deny, but on the contrary, I think he said 'kill whitey'.

As far as the war zone thing, WHAT??? As someone who has never owned a gun, and only fired a gun once while one my honeymoon, I feel odd educating on the desire to bear arms, but to enlighten those living in ivory towers: People want guns to protect their families, not because bullets are flying around the neighborhood, this isn't Philadelphia, but from that one drug addict that decides to break into your home, or that one crazed loner that tries to rape your wife, or that one child molester that targets your daughter.

As far as the economy comment, I'm glad that one open-minded indivudual saw the irony in the statement, as George Bush has been blamed for everything but the weather, oh yeah, Al Gore has blamed him for that too.

I thought the use of the word glib was banned after Tom Cruise buthchered it.

Wow, some liberal Penn State professor must have really gotten into your head.

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#943001 - 04/16/08 03:05 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
if you HONESTLY think that Obama is viewing you as a, point blank, hillbilly then you've missed the point entirely. I cannot see how Obama has viewed anyone in that light.


You left out racist. Oh wait, that's not him, it's only his closest advisers who hate me for being white.


so you REALLY think obama is racist? yes or no will suffice.


Yes, I do.

His closest advisor is a racist, and very vocally so. Does he say anything to distance himself? Nope, not until someone catches him and it hurts his campaign.

He calls his white grandmother a racist and says she is a typical white person. He talks about small town middle americans as if they are all hillbillies.

In his own writings, he admits that at the age of 12 or 13 he tried to avoid letting anyone know his mother was white.

In high school, he and his black friends would speak about whites with racist tones. "White folks this and White folks that".

If you read his book "Dreams From My Father", published before he was involved in politics, you can see how closely his views are to Reverend White's.

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#943008 - 04/16/08 03:09 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
my family has never owned a gun. we've always felt well-protected.


That's the way it goes...until one day you don't.

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#943140 - 04/16/08 04:22 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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i've never seen you say something less profound, j. i am actually pretty disappointed.

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#943166 - 04/16/08 05:03 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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I realize he is dismissed by the left as an "Uncle Tom" (read: black conservative), but here is Thomas Sowell's take on Obama's Speech. A Living Lie
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#943175 - 04/16/08 05:10 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Bankster
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Whoa Whoa, because someone has the credentials to teach law that person knows human psychology. Not even close. Those are two totally different studies. Ron's man crush is overwhelming.
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#943202 - 04/16/08 05:33 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: BongZilla
I realize he is dismissed by the left as an "Uncle Tom" (read: black conservative), but here is Thomas Sowell's take on Obama's Speech. A Living Lie


Worth the read, Bong(bolding and color my own emphasis):

A living lie

By Thomas Sowell

An e-mail from a reader said that, while Hillary Clinton tells lies, Barack Obama is himself a lie. That is becoming painfully apparent with each new revelation of how drastically his carefully crafted image this election year contrasts with what he has actually been saying and doing for many years.

Senator Obama's election year image is that of a man who can bring the country together, overcoming differences of party or race, as well as solving our international problems by talking with Iran and other countries with which we are at odds, and performing other miscellaneous miracles as needed.

There is, of course, not a speck of evidence that Obama has ever transcended party differences in the United States Senate. Voting records analyzed by the National Journal show him to be the farthest left of anyone in the Senate. Nor has he sponsored any significant bipartisan legislation nor any other significant legislation, for that matter.

Senator Obama is all talk glib talk, exciting talk, confident talk, but still just talk.

Some of his recent talk in San Francisco has stirred up controversy because it revealed yet another blatant contradiction between Barack Obama's public image and his reality.

Speaking privately to supporters in heavily left-liberal San Francisco, Obama let down his hair and described working class people in Pennsylvania as so "bitter" that they "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them."

Like so much that Obama has said and done over the years, this is standard stuff on the far left, where guns and religion are regarded as signs of psychological dysfunction and where opinions different from those of the left are ascribed to emotions ("bitter" in this case), rather than to arguments that need to be answered.

Like so many others on the left, Obama rejects "stereotypes" when they are stereotypes he doesn't like but blithely throws around his own stereotypes about "a typical white person" or "bitter" gun-toting, religious and racist working class people.

In politics, the clearer a statement is, the more certain it is to be followed by a "clarification," when people react adversely to what was plainly said.

Obama and his supporters were still busy "clarifying" Jeremiah Wright's very plain statements when it suddenly became necessary to "clarify" Senator Obama's own statements in San Francisco.

People who have been cheering whistle-blowers for years have suddenly denounced the person who blew the whistle on what Obama said in private that is so contradictory to what he has been saying in public.

However inconsistent Obama's words, his behavior has been remarkably consistent over the years. He has sought out and joined with the radical, anti-Western left, whether Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers of the terrorist Weatherman underground or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Rashid Khalidi.

Obama is also part of a long tradition on the left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings.

Karl Marx said, "The working class is revolutionary or it is nothing." In other words, they mattered only in so far as they were willing to carry out the Marxist agenda.

Fabian socialist George Bernard Shaw included the working class among the "detestable" people who "have no right to live." He added: "I should despair if I did not know that they will all die presently, and that there is no need on earth why they should be replaced by people like themselves."

Similar statements on the left go back as far as Rousseau in the 18th century and come forward into our own times.

It is understandable that young people are so strongly attracted to Obama. Youth is another name for inexperience and experience is what is most needed when dealing with skillful and charismatic demagogues.

Those of us old enough to have seen the type again and again over the years can no longer find them exciting. Instead, they are as tedious as they are dangerous
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#943275 - 04/16/08 06:33 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Quote:
At the moment, critics have tried to diminish Senator Obama through the exaggeration of certain of his comments and relationships. While these matters are worthy of some discussion, they have been ripped out of the context and fabric of the man's life and vision, so well described in his excellent book, Dreams of My Father, often in order to distract us from discussing the real issues: war and peace, the fight for economic and racial justice, reaffirming our Constitution, and the protection and enhancement of our environment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/bruce-springsteen-endorse_n_96933.html

Ahhh. A sense of nirvana for my simple minded self.

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#943282 - 04/16/08 06:35 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
Jokerman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
i've never seen you say something less profound, j. i am actually pretty disappointed.


I've never seen you show greater comprehension. Now that's disappointing.

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#943297 - 04/16/08 06:43 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Quote:
At the moment, critics have tried to diminish Senator Obama through the exaggeration of certain of his comments and relationships. While these matters are worthy of some discussion, they have been ripped out of the context and fabric of the man's life and vision, so well described in his excellent book, Dreams of My Father, often in order to distract us from discussing the real issues: war and peace, the fight for economic and racial justice, reaffirming our Constitution, and the protection and enhancement of our environment


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/16/bruce-springsteen-endorse_n_96933.html

Ahhh. A sense of nirvana for my simple minded self.


Wow, now I KNOW to avoid backing Obama. This is the same guy who though Mr. Wishy Washy himself, John Kerry was a great candidate.

Fact: Obama seeks to "fix" the racial divide by exaggerating it.

Fact: Obama is charismatic, and says nothing concrete most of the time, and when he says something concrete, it is usually quite scary.

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#943303 - 04/16/08 06:48 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: TheChangeinator
Originally Posted By: BongZilla
I realize he is dismissed by the left as an "Uncle Tom" (read: black conservative), but here is Thomas Sowell's take on Obama's Speech. A Living Lie


Worth the read, Bong(bolding and color my own emphasis):

A living lie

By Thomas Sowell

An e-mail from a reader said that, while Hillary Clinton tells lies, Barack Obama is himself a lie. That is becoming painfully apparent with each new revelation of how drastically his carefully crafted image this election year contrasts with what he has actually been saying and doing for many years.

Senator Obama's election year image is that of a man who can bring the country together, overcoming differences of party or race, as well as solving our international problems by talking with Iran and other countries with which we are at odds, and performing other miscellaneous miracles as needed.

There is, of course, not a speck of evidence that Obama has ever transcended party differences in the United States Senate. Voting records analyzed by the National Journal show him to be the farthest left of anyone in the Senate. Nor has he sponsored any significant bipartisan legislation nor any other significant legislation, for that matter.

Senator Obama is all talk glib talk, exciting talk, confident talk, but still just talk.

Some of his recent talk in San Francisco has stirred up controversy because it revealed yet another blatant contradiction between Barack Obama's public image and his reality.

Speaking privately to supporters in heavily left-liberal San Francisco, Obama let down his hair and described working class people in Pennsylvania as so "bitter" that they "cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them."

Like so much that Obama has said and done over the years, this is standard stuff on the far left, where guns and religion are regarded as signs of psychological dysfunction and where opinions different from those of the left are ascribed to emotions ("bitter" in this case), rather than to arguments that need to be answered.

Like so many others on the left, Obama rejects "stereotypes" when they are stereotypes he doesn't like but blithely throws around his own stereotypes about "a typical white person" or "bitter" gun-toting, religious and racist working class people.

In politics, the clearer a statement is, the more certain it is to be followed by a "clarification," when people react adversely to what was plainly said.

Obama and his supporters were still busy "clarifying" Jeremiah Wright's very plain statements when it suddenly became necessary to "clarify" Senator Obama's own statements in San Francisco.

People who have been cheering whistle-blowers for years have suddenly denounced the person who blew the whistle on what Obama said in private that is so contradictory to what he has been saying in public.

However inconsistent Obama's words, his behavior has been remarkably consistent over the years. He has sought out and joined with the radical, anti-Western left, whether Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers of the terrorist Weatherman underground or pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli Rashid Khalidi.

Obama is also part of a long tradition on the left of being for the working class in the abstract, or as people potentially useful for the purposes of the left, but having disdain or contempt for them as human beings.

Karl Marx said, "The working class is revolutionary or it is nothing." In other words, they mattered only in so far as they were willing to carry out the Marxist agenda.

Fabian socialist George Bernard Shaw included the working class among the "detestable" people who "have no right to live." He added: "I should despair if I did not know that they will all die presently, and that there is no need on earth why they should be replaced by people like themselves."

Similar statements on the left go back as far as Rousseau in the 18th century and come forward into our own times.

It is understandable that young people are so strongly attracted to Obama. Youth is another name for inexperience and experience is what is most needed when dealing with skillful and charismatic demagogues.

Those of us old enough to have seen the type again and again over the years can no longer find them exciting. Instead, they are as tedious as they are dangerous


That was GREAT, thanks.
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#943357 - 04/16/08 07:16 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? MB Guy
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Thanks for posting Sowell's commentary. Very interesting reading. I tend to agree with Truffle Royale in that I simply want a person with integrity/someone who tells the truth leading my country. It's painfully clear that Mrs. Clinton changes and denies actual facts whenever politically convenient. I have been hugely, painfully disappointed in Mr. Obama's statements in recent weeks ("typical white person"? Wow). I have been left spending some of my time re-reading Obama's writings and comparing them with his voting records and recent speeches and actions, and I have to say that I've largely come to the same conclusions as Mr. Sowell. Now, I am turning my presidential candidate attention to examining Mr. McCain and his positions and actions and words. Overall, it has been a disappointing year for American politics IMHO. I love this country deeply, but I have no great love for these 3 candidates at present; it makes me feel a bit gloomy about the political future at the national level. Fortunately, much political change can be effected at the local level, so I encourage everyone to get involved, get educated and VOTE in each and every election for your local leaders not just a presidential candidate.
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#943360 - 04/16/08 07:18 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? BurntSienna
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Very true Sienna. The legislative elections, and the local state senates etc are very important too.
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#943362 - 04/16/08 07:18 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: Jokerman
Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
i've never seen you say something less profound, j. i am actually pretty disappointed.


I've never seen you show greater comprehension. Now that's disappointing.

i figured you'd say something like that in response. would you care to elaborate on how "someday you might" is more than a reference to probabilities?

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#943377 - 04/16/08 07:39 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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probability vs. possibility is somewhat dependent upon whom you pass on the street, ala that typical old white grandmotherly person, no?
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.


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#943382 - 04/16/08 07:45 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
i figured you'd say something like that in response. would you care to elaborate on how "someday you might" is more than a reference to probabilities?


And I figured that rather than addressing the point, you'd deflect with some question that you find incredibly profound, but which makes about as much sense to us mere mortals out here in the working world as a Citi SIV.

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#943406 - 04/16/08 07:58 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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haven't we talked more than enough about the philosophical pro/cons of arming the public?

i understand that many people like the idea of "new quahog" wherein there is:

a chicken in every pot and a cap in every a**.

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#943422 - 04/16/08 08:07 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
Jokerman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
haven't we talked more than enough about the philosophical pro/cons of arming the public?


If we have, why are you continuing to argue about it, moRon?

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#943429 - 04/16/08 08:09 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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luckily for you that clever html usage will go unnoticed by deputy dog pale. (not that i care though. i thought it was funny)

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#943442 - 04/16/08 08:17 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
Pale Rider Offline
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what does it mean? can I find it in the UD?

you, above only Neo and Barbarian know that I protect you silly little behinds more than any other mod, so show some respect!

and why are you not answering any of my questions in this thread?

you have a very bad habit of doing that
_________________________
Societies that do not find work in and of itself "pleasing to God and requisite to Man," tend to be highly corrupt.


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#943452 - 04/16/08 08:24 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Pale Rider
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pale, forget about it. i have no beef with you.

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