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#945572 - 04/18/08 03:25 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
I'm sorry. Scooter Libby was indeed convicted.
And Alberto Gonzalez was forced to resign.

Me thinks those actions show that there was more this than "far-left speculation".


but your quote was that they were advising the President as criminals. Libby resigned before he was convicted, and I don't believe he has been advising the President since then. If you can find credible evidence that he was, I'd be interested to see it. As far as Gonzalez resigning, I don't recall any criminal charges or prosecution at all. Remember, one of the great things about our Country is innocent until proven guilty.
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#945574 - 04/18/08 03:26 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? TheManofSteel
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I suppose that would be in my best interest, I would hate to say something I shouldnt, just to prove my point
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#945577 - 04/18/08 03:28 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
Condi Rice is not a presedential candidate

i heard that rev wright wasn't a presidential candidate, either. how can this be true?


I heard that a Presidential candidate keeps close council with a racist. How can this be?

I also notice you ignored my points. If I was as childish as you, I guess I would give myself a score.

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#945586 - 04/18/08 03:34 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? TheManofSteel
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Geez Neo I guess you are free to decide who is a crimal or not. Even when the Surprems Court disagrees with you. Amazing your unbias forsight.
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#945589 - 04/18/08 03:34 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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“I'll be honest with you, I did not become aware of them until I started running for president. And at that point, yes, I had conversations with him, which I shared with him my deep concerns,” Obama said. “The caricature that's been presented of him is not an accurate depiction of who he is as a pastor.”

do you disbelieve him because i support him?

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#945594 - 04/18/08 03:38 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
kms Offline
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I disbelieve him because of all of his "mistake comments" He is just not ready to be a president, he needs more grooming for the position
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#945598 - 04/18/08 03:40 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
Imagine Offline
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Ron, don't you know that's the norm?
You and I are ignorant because we're young and we support Obama.

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#945599 - 04/18/08 03:41 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? kms
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Originally Posted By: kms
I disbelieve him because of all of his "mistake comments" He is just not ready to be a president, he needs more grooming for the position


And what made Fred "Law & Order" Thompson groomed for the position?

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#945601 - 04/18/08 03:42 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? kms
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why aren't you an "intelligence" officer anymore?

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#945614 - 04/18/08 03:46 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
kms Offline
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actually I hope to be again soon, I should find out within a couple of weeks. or do you want to know why I left. My husband was sleeping with my best friend and I was 8 months pregnant, I knew that with a newborn and 2 other kids, I would be able to give the air force all it deserved or my family. Now I am in a position to back.
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#945620 - 04/18/08 03:48 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? kms
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If you do go back Kori, God bless. I do not degrade your service, only your politics.

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#945625 - 04/18/08 03:48 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? kms
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good luck! (sincerely)

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#945628 - 04/18/08 03:49 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? doobydoobydoo
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Originally Posted By: DoobyDoobyDoo
I thought this thread was about TheIncredbileComplyGuy


Me too!

Now I'm sorry I opened it.
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#945630 - 04/18/08 03:50 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Originally Posted By: TheChanginator
Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
And we have criminals advising the ACTUAL President. What's your point?

Really? Provide your evidence, not your far-left filtered partisan psychobable, evidence, evidence.


Oh gee. I don't know.
The US Attorney issue.
The political prosecution of the Governor of Alabama.
Warrantless wiretapping.
Scooter Libby (office of the VPOTUS, but you get the point).

But I guess these things aren't important, because the people responsible for these acts all wear flag pins.



Neo, the US attorney issue is definitely not illegal. The US Attys serve at the pleasure of the President. While it mayu distatseful, political and sacrifice the atty's independence, this isn't that different from the democrats refusing to confirm judicial nominees. The Sup Ct has ruled that with the right to hire comes the right to fire.

At this point, there are only allegations regarding political influence on the governor's prosecution, so perhaps stating this as a fait accompli is hyperbole.

Warrentless wiretapping may be unconstitutional, but to make it sound like it is a criminal act is again hyperbole. Reasonable people disagree on this Constitutional gray area.

And to cite Scooter Libby for his perjury charge is ironic, since you are then calling President Clinton a criminal as well, aren't you.

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#945638 - 04/18/08 03:52 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Quote:
so perhaps stating this as a fait accompli is hyperbole.

the same cannot be said about the obama arguments made here and on the rest of the conservative blogs?

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#945648 - 04/18/08 03:55 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
And to cite Scooter Libby for his perjury charge is ironic, since you are then calling President Clinton a criminal as well, aren't you.


yes.

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#945657 - 04/18/08 03:57 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Hated By Some
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
so perhaps stating this as a fait accompli is hyperbole.

the same cannot be said about the obama arguments made here and on the rest of the conservative blogs?


Yes they can. The difference is that you are not considering it, you simply dismiss it.

And no, I don't believe Obama, not because you support him, but because it is simply not credible that for over 20 years, these views did not present themselves.

And regarding this caricature, I am sure Hitler's friends would have said history's portrayal of him isn't entirely accurate.

After all, Hitler liked animals.

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#945658 - 04/18/08 03:57 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Imagine
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: NeophytePolitico
Originally Posted By: straw
And to cite Scooter Libby for his perjury charge is ironic, since you are then calling President Clinton a criminal as well, aren't you.


yes.


Great, so we have improved. Instead of the President himself being a criminal, only his advisors are.

Let's rejoice.

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#945662 - 04/18/08 03:59 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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#945830 - 04/18/08 06:27 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Quote:
And to cite Scooter Libby for his perjury charge is ironic, since you are then calling President Clinton a criminal as well, aren't you.


Are you serious? Libby was CONVICTED! They were never even able to bring criminal charges against Clinton, much less get a conviction. The closest they came was bringing political charges against him in the impeachment hearings and those were easily defeated.

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#945855 - 04/18/08 06:45 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Nothing gets yoss so riled as to even suggest anything less than deity for all things clinton.
Last edited by BongZilla; 04/18/08 06:46 PM.
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#945856 - 04/18/08 06:45 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
And to cite Scooter Libby for his perjury charge is ironic, since you are then calling President Clinton a criminal as well, aren't you.


Are you serious? Libby was CONVICTED! They were never even able to bring criminal charges against Clinton, much less get a conviction. The closest they came was bringing political charges against him in the impeachment hearings and those were easily defeated.


Are you kidding? You honestly believe he did not commit perjury? Hey, OJ was found not guilty too, but I think we all know what really happened.

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#945930 - 04/18/08 07:52 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Quote:
You honestly believe he did not commit perjury?


Yes. Perjury requires a false statement under oath about a material matter. Even if you believe that he made false statements in his deposition in the Jones case, whether he had a relationship with Lewinsky was not at all material to the Jones case, so any perjury charges would have failed on that issue alone. In his Grand Jury testimony, he acknowledged his relationship with Lewinsky.

Prosecutors never brought charges because they had a sure loser of a case.

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#945943 - 04/18/08 08:03 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Quote:
Prosecutors never brought charges because they had a sure loser of a case.


Uhh, Yoss I think there's a little more to it than that. Prosecutors also contended with the serious legal and constitutional issues (let alone the political ones) of bringing criminal charges against a sitting president.

The fact that he had to pay a $90,000 fine (and lost his Ark. bar license, FWIW) for civil contempt is not meaningless. I think it was stupid and wrong to impeach him, but that doesn't mean he didn't commit perjury. Your parsing of the materiality standard may be accurate, but then again it may not.

More to the point, you sound like Al Gore - "no controlling legal authority" - you may be technically accurate on the law, but in terms of whose act was worse, I don't see a lot of difference between Clinton and Libby - both were caught up in politically motivated, meritless investigations.
Last edited by rainman; 04/18/08 08:12 PM.
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#945944 - 04/18/08 08:04 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? rainman
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wait, are we still talking about TICG??!?!?

I'm confuzzled.
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