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#945954 - 04/18/08 08:22 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? A_G
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
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#945958 - 04/18/08 08:26 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? rainman
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Quote:
Your parsing of the materiality standard may be accurate, but then again it may not.


Well, anyone is free to make the argument that the Lewinsky matter was material, but I'm not sure what that would be. But it is not just "parsing" - perjury is a legal term and materiality is an essential element of the charge. No materiality, no perjury. Libby was convicted because he committed the crime.

I disagree somewhat with your statement that the Plame matter was a "politically motivated, meritless" investigation. The CIA requested the investigation, remember. They have a strong interest in protecting their agents and front companies from being outed. Libby may not have been a big fish, but the investigation was necessary.

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#945966 - 04/18/08 08:37 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Yup, and OJ was not guilty, doesn't mean he was innocent.

If there was nothing wrong with he did, why was his license revoked?

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#945971 - 04/18/08 08:42 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
Your parsing of the materiality standard may be accurate, but then again it may not.


Well, anyone is free to make the argument that the Lewinsky matter was material, but I'm not sure what that would be. But it is not just "parsing" - perjury is a legal term and materiality is an essential element of the charge. No materiality, no perjury. Libby was convicted because he committed the crime.

I disagree somewhat with your statement that the Plame matter was a "politically motivated, meritless" investigation. The CIA requested the investigation, remember. They have a strong interest in protecting their agents and front companies from being outed. Libby may not have been a big fish, but the investigation was necessary.
Yes, except that just like the Duke Lacrosse case, the prosecutor new very early in the investigation the identity of the leaker (Richard Armitage) but prosecuting him didn't further his agenda.
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#945993 - 04/18/08 08:59 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Quote:
If there was nothing wrong with he did, why was his license revoked?


Now you are changing what you claimed from "criminal" and committing "perjury" to "nothing wrong". In fact, his license was suspended for five years for making misleading statements in the deposition.

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#945998 - 04/18/08 09:02 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
If there was nothing wrong with he did, why was his license revoked?


Now you are changing what you claimed from "criminal" and committing "perjury" to "nothing wrong". In fact, his license was suspended for five years for making misleading statements in the deposition.


Ah, but doesn't rise to criminality, so its all ok. The POTUS makes false statements, (not misleading, he flat out lied) in a deposition. His arrogance that he can thumbs his nose at everything. He holds the everything with contempt.

But you are right. He is technically not a criminal, just an obiviously morally deficient, ethically bankrupt individual who would not have been able to mop the floor of a company if he had behaved like this in the private world.

Congrats on whom you hold in such high esteem.

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#946041 - 04/18/08 09:26 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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The "misleading" part comes from the fact that he was given a definition of the term "sexual relations" that was drafted by Jones counsel that did not include oral sex.

As far as the tone of your response, all I did was challenge specific statements that you made. Don't take it so personally.

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#946111 - 04/18/08 10:03 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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I am not taking it any more personally than you do when someone brings up President Clinton in the less than hero worship light you see him.

Check the mirror there cowboy.

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#946112 - 04/18/08 10:04 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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It depends on what the definition of "is" is.

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#946120 - 04/18/08 10:08 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Let's just drop this. Have a good weekend, Straw.

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#946123 - 04/18/08 10:10 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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You too. Going to any Clinton rallies?

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#946124 - 04/18/08 10:11 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? straw
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Curled up by the fire...
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#946126 - 04/18/08 10:16 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Mrs. Rizzo
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I didn't even know anyone kept a ledger like that!

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#946131 - 04/18/08 10:25 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Did he invent the heath bar?

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#946220 - 04/19/08 01:57 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
The "misleading" part comes from the fact that he was given a definition of the term "sexual relations" that was drafted by Jones counsel that did not include oral sex.


I wish you'd quit telling this lie.

Originally Posted By: THE WASHINGTON POST
Under the definition approved by U.S. District Judge Susan Webber Wright during his deposition, "a person engages in 'sexual relations' when the person knowingly engages in or causes contact with the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person."

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#946221 - 04/19/08 02:03 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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I posted something similar but it must have offended someone and got removed.
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#946239 - 04/20/08 02:22 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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Lie???? Point out where that definition says "mouth".

Did Clinton have sexual relations with Lewinsky under that definition? He would have had to contact her "genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks". That didn't happen. If they had asked the question of Lewinsky it would have been true, but not when asked of Clinton.

Thanks for posting the definition, J!!!! Great way to prove my point.

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#946240 - 04/20/08 03:23 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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didn't Mr. Clinton acknowledge fondling certain areas of Ms. Lewinsky that would meet the def?
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#946243 - 04/20/08 03:31 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Lie???? Point out where that definition says "mouth".

Did Clinton have sexual relations with Lewinsky under that definition? He would have had to contact her "genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks". That didn't happen. If they had asked the question of Lewinsky it would have been true, but not when asked of Clinton.

Thanks for posting the definition, J!!!! Great way to prove my point.


Oh my. We're so far in the tank for Slick Willie that we're willing to believe that he did "this" but not "that" when she says he did, in fact, do "that" and he's been proven to be a complete liar on the whole story. You ought to be embarrased. Unfortunately, you've probably perverted the truth enough in your own mind that you're not.

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#946245 - 04/20/08 04:36 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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Quote:
he did "this" but not "that" when she says he did


What are you talking about????? She says she performed oral sex but not intercourse. Where does this idea come from that she says something contrary to what he said?

If you can find something that fits the definition, what is it?

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#946246 - 04/20/08 04:39 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Pale Rider
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Quote:
didn't Mr. Clinton acknowledge fondling certain areas of Ms. Lewinsky that would meet the def?


Not that I've ever heard.

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#946248 - 04/20/08 11:22 AM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
didn't Mr. Clinton acknowledge fondling certain areas of Ms. Lewinsky that would meet the def?


Not that I've ever heard.


Did not Ms. Lewinsky testify that he touched her breasts in order to arouse or gratify a desire? The fact that Clinton would have denied it would only fit the pattern of lies the crafted.

I am with Jokerman on this one Yoss, it would appear you have drank the koolaid.
Last edited by Pale Rider; 04/20/08 11:23 AM.
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#946279 - 04/20/08 04:22 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
he did "this" but not "that" when she says he did


What are you talking about????? She says she performed oral sex but not intercourse. Where does this idea come from that she says something contrary to what he said?

If you can find something that fits the definition, what is it?

Oh, please. This isn't even moderately difficult:

Originally Posted By: THE STARR REPORT
According to Ms. Lewinsky, she performed oral sex on the President on nine occasions. On all nine of those occasions, the President fondled and kissed her bare breasts. He touched her genitals, both through her underwear and directly, bringing her to orgasm on two occasions. On one occasion, the President inserted a cigar into her [censored]. On another occasion, she and the President had brief genital-to-genital contact.(42)

Now, maybe she's lying and he was telling the truth when he said he had never done anything that fit that particular definition of "sexual relations". But on what track record would you give him the benefit of the doubt???

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#946285 - 04/20/08 05:18 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
didn't Mr. Clinton acknowledge fondling certain areas of Ms. Lewinsky that would meet the def?


Not that I've ever heard.


The fact that Clinton would have denied it


You do realize that you went from asking whether he had acknowledged it to saying he had denied it, right?

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#946287 - 04/20/08 05:34 PM Re: Is What He Said Wrong? Honestly? Jokerman
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It looks as though you're right about their making conflicting statements. I was focused on your earlier inaccurate claim that it was a "lie" to say that the definition didn't cover oral sex.

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