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#948107 - 04/23/08 02:52 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
Hated By Some
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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why is it cheap? could it be ridiculously inappropriate subsidies? but to your point, if it is giving you crappy mileage, is it *really* cheaper? just because it is cheaper per gallon doesn't mean that it is cheaper. So, you're against alternative fuels?
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#948118 - 04/23/08 02:57 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
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Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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not at all. i am against thermodynamically-inefficient-though-politcally-desireable-to-midwestern-farmer alternative fuels. Even if it is inefficient, is it not renewable, and thus in no danger of running out? Is it not a cleaner burning fuel? Does it not provide direct income to the United States economy?
Last edited by Bengalsfan; 04/23/08 03:01 PM.
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#948127 - 04/23/08 03:06 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
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does it have an affect on our resources? should we wait until we run out to have to scurry to find new sources? aren't economic pressures from oil already pretty strong? gas sales were down 2-11% due to pricing issues in december. And don't you think those pressures will lead to another cost effective energy source. Or do you think we will return to the caves?
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#948129 - 04/23/08 03:08 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
B_F
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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not at all. i am against thermodynamically-inefficient-though-politcally-desireable-to-midwestern-farmer alternative fuels. Even if it is inefficient, is it not renewable, and thus in no danger of running out? Is it not a cleaner burning fuel? Does it not provide direct income to the United States economy? Actually, it is probably a leading inflation cause, since corn prices are through the roof, which lead to higher prices across many different food products.
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#948130 - 04/23/08 03:08 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
B_F
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,603
Somewhere vanilla
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Even if it is inefficient, is it not renewable, and thus in no danger of running out? ...other than that, how was the play mrs. lincoln? can't we just answer the same questions with a more thermodynamically efficient alternative? would the other alternatives also be clean burning? 'providing direct income' to the united states is a pretty limited perspective. what about overall costs? what are the economic ramifications? should all of the land go to 'energy' production instead of food? i don't understand this fascination with the short term other than the fact that it is easier to conceptualize.
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#948135 - 04/23/08 03:11 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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Even if it is inefficient, is it not renewable, and thus in no danger of running out? ...other than that, how was the play mrs. lincoln? can't we just answer the same questions with a more thermodynamically efficient alternative? would the other alternatives also be clean burning? 'providing direct income' to the united states is a pretty limited perspective. what about overall costs? what are the economic ramifications? should all of the land go to 'energy' production instead of food? i don't understand this fascination with the short term other than the fact that it is easier to conceptualize. Using one alternative does not mean you abandon looking at other alternatives. Otherwise, you'd still be burning either wood or coal in your train instead of driving a car.
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#948160 - 04/23/08 03:31 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
straw
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Somewhere vanilla
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Ok Mr. Long Term solutions, what is the answer to a more thermodynamically efficient alternative? i am not an engineer. i have suggested that there are more thermodynamically efficient sources as well as suggesting that there are ways to affect demand (wind, solar, geothermal, etc).
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#948208 - 04/23/08 04:05 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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how did this thread get so far astray?
why are we not discussing the threat of global cooling? The impact is far greater and ever so immediate if we enter another mini ice age similar to the 600 years after 1100 a.d.
Last edited by Bitter Rural PR; 04/23/08 04:07 PM.
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#948260 - 04/23/08 04:51 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
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i'm not a global warming enthusiast. i am an environmental enthusiast. i think al gore perhaps did a disservice to the environment by framing the issue around global warming. I actually agree with Ronzilla!
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#948299 - 04/23/08 05:34 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
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Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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i guess i don't understand wtf your point is here, straw.do you deny that there are other sources of altrnative energy that are more thermodynamically efficient than corn ethanol? I guess I don't understand you, Ron. Do you deny that it is better to have ANY completely renewable alternative fuel than NO other option than non-renewable resources?
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#948322 - 04/23/08 05:57 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,912
Outside A Garage
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Ok Mr. Long Term solutions, what is the answer to a more thermodynamically efficient alternative? i am not an engineer. i have suggested that there are more thermodynamically efficient sources as well as suggesting that there are ways to affect demand (wind, solar, geothermal, etc). Of course the enviro naziswackos conveniently forget probably the most efficient, least polluting energy source...nuclear energy.
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#948338 - 04/23/08 06:14 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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One ECOLOGIST, not a chemist, physicist, engineer, etc. says so, and you believe him. Gotcha. More importantly, does it matter if creating the fuel uses more energy to create liquid fuel than the energy output? No. Why? Apples to Oranges. I'm sure it takes more energy to drill for oil and convert it to gas than you get from gas too. The question isn't is energy used to create a source of energy, it is can we run our vehicles and get from place to place using it!
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#948349 - 04/23/08 06:23 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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i guess i don't understand wtf your point is here, straw.do you deny that there are other sources of altrnative energy that are more thermodynamically efficient than corn ethanol? I am asking you if you know any.
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#948351 - 04/23/08 06:25 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
FBH
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Power Poster
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,349
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Considering we're coming to an end of a period of increased solar activity, global cooling is a distinct possibility. With that said, global cooling may be Earth's reaction to all the pollutants and greenhouse gases we're putting into the atmosphere. The system is balancing things out... Yes, historically this has happened. Unfortunately, as a combat to your statement, it usually takes hundreds of years, not all at once.
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#948371 - 04/23/08 06:36 PM
Re: Al Gore may have gotten it wrong
MB Guy
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,195
Basking in the Cool Weather
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I My fear is that the current "Washington - Big Business Machine" hampers the development of new sources of energy and I think we need to find a way to incentivize this and break the current cycle. yeah man... and the black helicopters are circling over head right now... ::rips from the bong a la Ron, "oh my god i just turned my friends head into a bong," Mexico:: and like NAFTA is gonna create a super highway that parallels I35... and remove american sovreignty andcreate a unified currency called the AMero ::takes another bong hit a la Ron, "dude where's my car," Mexico:: and like.. the environment is like.... hot man.. like really hot and stuff
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