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#974170 - 06/12/08 06:43 PM Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court
Imagine Offline
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Actually, it should be fairly noted that the Conservative members of the court are in the dissenting opinion on this issue.

High court: Gitmo detainees have rights in court

Quote:
WASHINGTON The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Guantanamo Bay detainees have a right to challenge their imprisonment in federal courts, in another rebuff to the Bush administration's effort to keep detainee cases under military control and away from review by U.S. judges...Justice Anthony Kennedy, casting the decisive fifth vote and writing the opinion, acknowledged the executive branch's interest in policies that protect national security at a time when threats "of terrorist attacks are constant."

Yet, Kennedy stressed, "The laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times. Liberty and security can be reconciled; and in our system they are reconciled within the framework of the law."

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#974183 - 06/12/08 06:55 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Imagine
Jokerman Offline
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So, if we encounter an unlawful combatant on the battlefield, I guess the best course of action is to (legally) shoot them as spies. Hope the lefties are happy.

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#974187 - 06/12/08 06:57 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Jokerman
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
Jokerman, that works today, but after President-elect Obama is sworn in, we should break out a prayer rug and offer them tea...
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#974197 - 06/12/08 07:07 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Imagine
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Isn't one of the Republican Party planks "The Constitution is one big inconvenient headache."?

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#974208 - 06/12/08 07:13 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Hrothgar Geiger
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first time in 282 years that unlawful combatants of the US now have constitutional rights

next we will be reading them their miranda rights............
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#974223 - 06/12/08 07:19 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Pale Rider
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PR:
What do you say to the "unlawful combatants" who are entitled to their Constitutional rights because they ARE American citizens?

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#974233 - 06/12/08 07:22 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Isn't one of the Republican Party planks "The Constitution is one big inconvenient headache."?


Sorry I think this statement is totally inaccurate. Typically the Republican party tries to give more freedoms to its citizens while the Democrats strive to take them away.

Although I admit this is not always true (i.e. abortion, marriage) it is in many cases.
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#974235 - 06/12/08 07:23 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: Jokerman
So, if we encounter an unlawful combatant on the battlefield, I guess the best course of action is to (legally) shoot them as spies. Hope the lefties are happy.


I think this will happen often and hopefully it will.
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#974257 - 06/12/08 07:37 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Sound Tactic
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Way, way south.
Well, at least this will start a process to determine their guilt or innocence and we can prosecute the guilty and free the innocent, which seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't know much about how the trial process will be, but I think that military trials would be the best course of action to get this resolved.
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#974260 - 06/12/08 07:39 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Sound Tactic
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Rush said on his program today that our soldiers won't be taking any more prisoners after this ruling. I am distressed by the court ruling, but find fault in the military for keeping those prisoners so long before trying them. They brought this on themselves to some extent.
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#974264 - 06/12/08 07:43 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Quadspapa
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Summary execution would have been better....and legal.
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#974268 - 06/12/08 07:45 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
first time in 282 years that unlawful combatants of the US now have constitutional rights

next we will be reading them their miranda rights............



Well, PR,
some of them are American citizens, so you'd think they have constitutional rights. Putting that to one side, though, the military has claimed that the prisoners aren't subject to Geneva Convention protections, don't have Constitutional rights, and aren't subject to normal military tribunals, and as the record has shown, can't even handle these prisoners according to the rules they've set up themselves.

I think they've made their bed, and now must lie in it.

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#974303 - 06/12/08 08:30 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: Smelly Cat
Summary execution would have been better....and legal.


And even though Baphomet is strapping on ice skates as I type this, Smelly Cat is partially right. Execution would have been more expeditious. Killing them at the time of capture might be seen as a casualty of combat, I suppose. Killing them after holding them in a military prison would still require some sort of legal standing and proceeding, even under military justice.

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#974320 - 06/12/08 08:54 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
first time in 282 years that unlawful combatants of the US now have constitutional rights

next we will be reading them their miranda rights............



Well, PR,
some of them are American citizens, so you'd think they have constitutional rights. Putting that to one side, though, the military has claimed that the prisoners aren't subject to Geneva Convention protections, don't have Constitutional rights, and aren't subject to normal military tribunals, and as the record has shown, can't even handle these prisoners according to the rules they've set up themselves.

I think they've made their bed, and now must lie in it.


Barbie, how many are US Citizens?
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#974331 - 06/12/08 08:57 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Sound Tactic
HappyGilmore Offline
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Pulling people out of the ditc...
I'm only aware of John Walker Lind (sp)...were there others?
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#974339 - 06/12/08 09:06 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour HappyGilmore
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Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi
Last edited by Imagine; 06/12/08 09:08 PM.
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#974363 - 06/12/08 09:30 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Imagine
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ok, we are up to 3

but I think we can all agree we are charting new territory and there have been some missteps, but overall these people have been handled in a morally responsible way for trying to kill as many Americans as they could.........

so now these folks will get their day in court, so be it......

its still a bit messy how the SCOTUS has injected itself in the prosecution of a war.........
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#974364 - 06/12/08 09:31 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Imagine
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So two of 271, is why we grant Federal Court hearings to enemy military combatants. While I admit US Citizens should be treated with rights, are you willing to put the country at risk again for the other 269? You do know the other 269 will attack again and one was even killed after we let him go?

What will you say to that?

By the way, the American citizens should be tried for treason, of which I think the penalty is death.
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#974367 - 06/12/08 09:34 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Sound Tactic
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http://washingtontimes.com/news/2004/oct/18/20041018-124854-2279r/

These were lesser detainees and look what they went back to. Do you want the 271 were keeping for a reason to get freed by Liberals who are willing to do anything to hurt the administration. Neo, answer the question. Is this what you want?
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#974369 - 06/12/08 09:36 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Sound Tactic
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God Bless America
yes the penalty for treason is death
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#974378 - 06/12/08 09:49 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour kms
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In establishing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, President Bush relied on a Supreme Court precedent of more than a half century's standing, Johnson v. Eisentrager (1950), which held that nonresident alien enemy combatants had no right to habeas corpus. As Scalia explains:

"Had the law been otherwise, the military surely would not have transported prisoners [to Guantanamo], but would have kept them in Afghanistan, transferred them to another of our foreign military bases, or turned them over to allies for detention. Those other facilities might well have been worse for the detainees themselves."
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#974379 - 06/12/08 09:51 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Court Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: Jokerman
So, if we encounter an unlawful combatant on the battlefield, I guess the best course of action is to (legally) shoot them as spies. Hope the lefties are happy.

J, I think part of the problem is that we're fighting a war on terrorism. The traditional view of who is a combatant doesn't work in this situation. Personally, I think a "war" on terrorism is a term that gets political points, but doesn't mean too much. We have to decide if we can legally treat these terrorists as captured soldiers who are fighting a legal war, or criminals who are breaking the law. We can't have it both ways.

P.S. I didn't read any of the posts below yours.
Last edited by Bugs Bunny; 06/12/08 09:53 PM.
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#974382 - 06/12/08 09:54 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Pale Rider
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Quote:
overall these people have been handled in a morally responsible way for trying to kill as many Americans as they could


That probably is the case for some of them. Others were turned in by Afghans that wanted rewards. Still another was an al Jazeera cameraman. Cameraman

He was kept in Guantanamo for six years without a trial and released last month. He "was working as a cameraman for al-Jazeera when he was arrested by Pakistani troops near the Afghan border in December 2001 and later handed over to the US military."

He "was accused of links to militant groups but not charged.

The US military alleged that he had been involved in funding Muslim fighters in Bosnia and Chechnya in the 1990s."

Quote:
so now these folks will get their day in court, so be it......


Not necessarily. many will probably just be released as the cameraman was and as many others have been.


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#974394 - 06/12/08 10:11 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour buggs
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Originally Posted By: Bugs Bunny
Originally Posted By: Jokerman
So, if we encounter an unlawful combatant on the battlefield, I guess the best course of action is to (legally) shoot them as spies. Hope the lefties are happy.

J, I think part of the problem is that we're fighting a war on terrorism.

Respectfully, no, we're not. We're fighting a war against Islamic fascists who use terror as the means to attempt to advance their cause. We call it something different for political correctness' sake.

Quote:
We have to decide if we can legally treat these terrorists as captured soldiers who are fighting a legal war, or criminals who are breaking the law. We can't have it both ways.

"We" weren't trying to have it both ways.

Quote:
P.S. I didn't read any of the posts below yours.

That's just as well, generally.

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#974398 - 06/12/08 10:26 PM Re: Those Darn Activist Judges on the Roberts Cour Yossarian
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Originally Posted By: Yossarian
Quote:
overall these people have been handled in a morally responsible way for trying to kill as many Americans as they could


That probably is the case for some of them. Others were turned in by Afghans that wanted rewards. Still another was an al Jazeera cameraman. Cameraman

He was kept in Guantanamo for six years without a trial and released last month. He "was working as a cameraman for al-Jazeera when he was arrested by Pakistani troops near the Afghan border in December 2001 and later handed over to the US military."

He "was accused of links to militant groups but not charged.

The US military alleged that he had been involved in funding Muslim fighters in Bosnia and Chechnya in the 1990s."

Quote:
so now these folks will get their day in court, so be it......


Not necessarily. many will probably just be released as the cameraman was and as many others have been.



Now, if he had been executed on the spot, as allowed by the Geneva Convention, he would not have been released at all.
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