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#975437 - 06/15/08 03:28 PM
Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 34,318
under the Lone Star
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here is a little fair and balanced reporting eh Neo? -----
Delegate’s reversal stuns party
Wisconsin Democrat now publicly supports McCain
By CRAIG GILBERT cgilbert@journalsentinel.com
Posted: June 14, 2008
Washington - As an avid supporter of Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Democratic primaries, Debra Bartoshevich is not alone in her frustration over Clinton's defeat.
She’s not alone in refusing to support Barack Obama.
And she’s not entirely alone in saying she’ll vote this fall for Republican John McCain instead.
But what makes her unusual is that she holds these views as an elected delegate to the Democratic National Convention in Denver this summer...............
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#975551 - 06/16/08 01:28 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
Pale Rider
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,988
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
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My dad is a rabid democrat - has nothing good to say about Bush. He is going to vote for John McCain. He was all for Hillary.
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"Once you learn to read, you will be forever free." - Frederick Douglass
My Opinion Only.
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#975623 - 06/16/08 02:26 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
Imagine
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,988
FINALLY ABOVE the gnat line
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It is a question of trust for my dad - he really doesn't like McCain but he really distrusts Obama. He's even willing to vote republican for all senators and representatives just in case Obama wins the presidency - he doesn't want him to have a democratic congress.
Forget issues - trust is really bid for folks of his generation. He felt that Hillary would take care of us. He doesn't trust Obama to do that.
And face it, both Hillary and McCain are more moderates in their respective parties than extremists. Hillary was slammed early in her campaign by the democratic extremists for being too moderate - yet a moderate would have won the election in November.
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"Once you learn to read, you will be forever free." - Frederick Douglass
My Opinion Only.
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#975633 - 06/16/08 02:33 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
waldensouth
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,974
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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Neo - what you fail to realize is that senator Obama is one of the most left-leaning senators EVER. And yet he tempers this history in his speeches in his presidential bid. He is telling people what he thinks they need to hear in order to get elected, and many people don't believe him (I believe the adage is that a toger doesn't change his stripes).
While you may believe everything he says as gospel truth, many people have looked past his words into his background, and the 2 don't reconcile themselves. And this is what scares people away from him. It is not because he is black (there are a percentage of voters who won't vote for him because he is black, just as there are a percentage of voters who will vote for him because he is black), it is because he is too stepford.
What I am finding very interesting is the number of prominent democratic columnists and radio hosts that are speaking out against Obama. He truly has the ability to gather or repel voters. There does not seem to be a middle ground with him.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#975636 - 06/16/08 02:33 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
Imagine
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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If I were a democrat, I'd see it this way...
IRAQ:
Obama - simply set a timetable and begin to withdraw immediately.
Clinton - Convene Joint Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Council and come up with a PLAN to withdraw our troops.
McCain - Ensure long term success.
At least Clinton plans to consult military leaders, unlike Obama who makes an empty promise to simply withdraw. Why is it empty? Because you can't just withdraw without a plan.
Taxes:
McCain - Intelligently formulated tax cuts to stimulate the economy, encourage entreprenureal thinking, and encourage higher growth.
Obama - Tax cuts for the poor and REVERSE tax cuts for everyone else.
Clinton - reduced taxes for the poor, RESCIND tax cuts for those making more than $250,000 a year, Tax cuts for the middle class.
At least Clinton stated that the top limit is going to be $250,000 a year. Obama has been VERY vague in what is considered to be worthy of lower taxes.
Abortion
McCain - Abortion is not simply a choice.
Clinton - Abortion is a choice, HOWEVER, by supporting adoption and foster care, we can reduce the number of abortions and make the right choice clearer.
Obama - Abortion is a woman's right, period.
I'd go with Clinton's answer on this one over Obama's. At least she recognizes the sanctity of life regarding abortion.
Foreign PolicY:
McCain - Diplomacy is one thing, but not just anyone gets to meet with the President.
Obama - I'll meet with the leaders of Cuba, Iran, Terrorist Organizations, whatever. Diplomatic meetings with our President are for anyone.
Clinton - Diplomacy, yes. Presidential meetings with Iran/Cuba? No.
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#975642 - 06/16/08 02:37 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
B_F
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,069
Fortress of Solitude
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Well-laid out BF. Not sure if it all completely accurate, but definitely well-laid out.
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"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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#975655 - 06/16/08 02:48 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
TheManofSteel
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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Well-laid out BF. Not sure if it all completely accurate, but definitely well-laid out. I just went to Obama's website and Hillaries and in about three minutes found a few critical differences.
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#975732 - 06/16/08 03:47 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
B_F
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,624
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or the wife who was only proud to be an American recently. The questioner noted that he had been educated at Princeton and Harvard and made more than $300,000 a year. "How can I be proud of my country?" he asked....
"I'll admit to you that it's tough, it's tough in some respects," McCain said, seeming to lend credence to Michelle Obama's observation. McCain said America needed to be "more humble, more inclusive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/14/mccain-its-tough-in-some_n_107163.htmlDon't you think there is a double standard?
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#975752 - 06/16/08 04:04 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
Imagine
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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#975763 - 06/16/08 04:12 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
Imagine
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,228
Cincinnati, OH
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or the wife who was only proud to be an American recently. The questioner noted that he had been educated at Princeton and Harvard and made more than $300,000 a year. "How can I be proud of my country?" he asked....
"I'll admit to you that it's tough, it's tough in some respects," McCain said, seeming to lend credence to Michelle Obama's observation. McCain said America needed to be "more humble, more inclusive." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/14/mccain-its-tough-in-some_n_107163.htmlDon't you think there is a double standard? There's a big difference between "sometimes it's tough to be proud of America" and "For the FIRST TIME I'm proud to be an American." Me? I was proud to be an American by age 6. I stayed proud to be an American even through the Carter administration, and I was damned proud to be an American when Ronald Reagan was in office. But ANYONE who was not proud to be an American when our nation united after 9/11 to band together and support the families of those who were lost, and to search for survivors at Ground Zero, and to rebuild what was lost, needs to think about things. Michelle Obama, according to her own words was not proud to be an American during that crisis.
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#975804 - 06/16/08 04:50 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
pjs
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,390
Cheeseheadland
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Up to the last couple of weeks, I have truly been on the fence about who to vote for. I have generally considered myself to be more conservative in my views and voting, and often will vote with my pocketbook as I normally feel stongly for self accountability, and doing for yourself instead of others doing for you.
But at this point, watching the recent cooler posts from our some more 'vocal' conservative coolies, if these are the people hanging their hats with McCain, I may be voting for Obama. I voted for Bush in the last two elections.
Several of the recent postings and attitudes expressed within these threads are attitudes and comments that are downright embarrassing me when I read what they have to say. I do not feel Obama is the right person for the job, but to resort to the hateful and downright misleading and demeaning remarks disgusts me. This is supposed to be a party of conservative values and fiscal responsibility, the latter of the two they have already clearly done away with. All I feel I am hearing from the party these days is a desperation, desperation reeking of hate and the continued emphasis on words and statements that are blown into something that most rational people realize they do not mean.
If they represent the face of today's Republican party and candidates, then I want no part of it. They may have cost McCain my vote.
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I don't repeat gossip, so listen closely...
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#975832 - 06/16/08 05:18 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
B_F
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,390
Cheeseheadland
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But that is the beauty of our system BF, we get to choose, and if it doesn't work out so hot, we get to change our minds! Are you tell me that you are voting in support of MaCain because all he stands for? I doubt that as I think you are voting McCain only becasue he is the Republican nominee... you are supporting the party and not the candidate.
At this point, I am willing to give something different a try. Worst case scenario, I can change my mind and vote differently in two and four years from now. No major changing legisation will ever take place in the first two years of any presidential term anyways.
And another thing BF, its not about people "not liking" him or others, but the fact that MaCain is not the candidate I once thought he was, and the way you and a few others talk so passionately(?) and hatefuly against the big O, that is turing me away from the party. The tones of hate and disgust I read and take away from the posts is what it turning me away from Mccain.
When I read posts like yours and a few others, I am embarrassed to stand with you and call myself a conservative. I like to think I am more open minded, civil and tolerant than that.
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I don't repeat gossip, so listen closely...
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#975838 - 06/16/08 05:23 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
#Just Jay
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10K Club
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 10,124
Way, way south.
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What hate are you talking about JJ?
All I have read on here are legitimate concerns about his experience (or lack of, more appropriately), his constant need to restate what he originally said because it "wasn't what he meant," that he has plans talk to terrorists and dictators w/o requesting some kind of reasonable concession (which is pretty much what every president of the past has done), that he has the furthest left voting record of any congressional member, etc.
What "hate" speak are you talking about?
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#975848 - 06/16/08 05:30 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
#Just Jay
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 27
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dont blame me, i voted for Ron Paul
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#975849 - 06/16/08 05:35 PM
Re: Dismayed Democrat will vote for McCain
B_F
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10K Club
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 14,390
Cheeseheadland
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There are not enough ultra-liberals to assist him. Heck, the variety of dems in control now are too varied for them to actually get together and agree on anything the way it is. In order to pick up healthy majorities in both houses, it will be made on the backs of very moderate democrats being brought in, those who are not going to risk their new seat in the first term or two to some widely devisive sweeping reforms/changes. They will want to get re-elected.
And McCain will have just as much gridlock if not more... republicans will not support him working with the democrats and leave him out to dry, and not enough democrats will trust him, or feel he is coming left of center enough to appease them.
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I don't repeat gossip, so listen closely...
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