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#978802 - 06/20/08 02:44 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
Retired DQ Offline
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If teenagers were smart enough to make decisions on their own, why don't they reach the age of majority until 18?
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#978804 - 06/20/08 02:46 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
To be fair, what you seem to be saying is that having sex with children under the legal age of consent would still be a crime for some age, not for others, maybe not for boys, maybe for girls, maybe not. And that perhaps the child's parents should send a thank you gift to the adult for providing such a valuable service.


No, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying the age of consent is wrong.

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#978805 - 06/20/08 02:47 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Retired DQ
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Originally Posted By: Devil Queen
If teenagers were smart enough to make decisions on their own, why don't they reach the age of majority until 18?


Good question. Why can our youth go out and join the army at 18, but they can't order a beer for another 3 years?

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#978815 - 06/20/08 02:54 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? DEL
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It's amazing to see where we are as a nation. Coddled, even being told when to become an "adult." We've engineered our society so much, and so indoctrinated people that we've lost sight on the contributions of "children" in the past. Have you ever heard the story of the USA's first Admiral, David Farragut? Here's a little taste:

"David followed his adopted father to the sea at the tender age of eight and received his first naval appointment as midshipman at large at the age of nine and a half. At age eleven he saw his first combat and even commanded a vessel at age twelve!"

Ben Franklin ended formal school at age 10, and was a printer's apprentice at age 12.

I'm getting off the point of this thread, about the current crime that happened, but I don't buy the argument that younger people 12-18, don't have the judgment to make decisions. If people could do it 200 years ago with less technology and education, I'm sure the people of today could do much better. But do they? The more I read, the more I think our species is being dumbed down. Especially, after you read about people like Farrgut and Franklin.
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#978818 - 06/20/08 02:57 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? FBH
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I agree with FBH. I was advanced for my age. I learned to walk when I was only 8! About that same time I stopped making doo doo and wee wee in my pants. I'm gifted.
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#978827 - 06/20/08 03:01 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? FBH
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BF,

I apologize. I became confused by your statements:
Quote:
I am of the opinion that at 13, our children must be ready to make their own decisions. At age 10, it's not ok. Is it ok for a female as much as a male? I don't know.

I would be glad to ask the parents of any 14 year old boy if they thought he was trying to get some from 14 year old girls, and then ask if they think it is better that when it happened, which if he wanted it was going to happen, if they would prefer he be with a young girl who would risk pregnancy, etc., or an older woman who I would hope was smart enough to take precautions against any unwanted issues.

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#978839 - 06/20/08 03:05 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Peepers
Comp Guy No More Offline
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Inappropriate? yes. Rape? no. The boy knew what he was doing. In fact, one of the boys had a condom with him and the boy who had sex with Ms. Honeycutt went and got the condom from his friend and returned to have sex with her.

The other boy who went in the shower with her, well, she "gave him a hand" and then laid in the tub while he "gave himself a hand". Trying to avoid getting deleted here. Read the affidavits that are part of the link. He must have been completely uncomfortable and taken advantage of to do that twice in a row.

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#978854 - 06/20/08 03:10 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Comp Guy No More
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CompGuy,

Inappropriate? Yes. Rape? Yes. There's an actual law involved here, with words and sentences and definitions and everything. It actually means something.

Sheesh....

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#978885 - 06/20/08 03:24 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: Devil Queen
If teenagers were smart enough to make decisions on their own, why don't they reach the age of majority until 18?


Good question. Why can our youth go out and join the army at 18, but they can't order a beer for another 3 years?
Interesting question, though a little off topic. Some states are pushing legislation to lower the drinking age to 18 for US servicemen.
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#978893 - 06/20/08 03:28 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Blade Scrapper
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
What I'm saying is that at age 13, these children are making (or at least should be making) an informed decision.

Good grief - have you ever actually met a 13-year old boy? They're about as capable of making responsible decisions as I am of making sense of your posts.

Originally Posted By: FBH
It's amazing to see where we are as a nation. Coddled, even being told when to become an "adult." We've engineered our society so much, and so indoctrinated people that we've lost sight on the contributions of "children" in the past. Have you ever heard the story of the USA's first Admiral, David Farragut? Here's a little taste:

"David followed his adopted father to the sea at the tender age of eight and received his first naval appointment as midshipman at large at the age of nine and a half. At age eleven he saw his first combat and even commanded a vessel at age twelve!"

Ah, the good ol' days. Hopefully David's father waited until David had matured to eight and a half before he purchased his first night with a hooker.

I can't believe that there are actually people arguing that sending children into combat or sex in the shower with the 38-year old nanny would be good ideas, or, at the least, things that shouldn't be a crime.

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#978898 - 06/20/08 03:30 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
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i think the stat rape laws were made one size fits all so that we wouldn't have to weigh the dynamic individually especially with consideration between females and males under 18.

the great blue hen makes a great point about maturity. or put another way, it's not like something magical happens at 18.

just focusing on the male perspective, i am really struggling to find what harm these boys experienced. of course, a different set of facts might require a different conclusion.

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#978918 - 06/20/08 03:38 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Jokerman
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Originally Posted By: Jokerman
Good grief - have you ever actually met a 13-year old boy? They're about as capable of making responsible decisions as I am of making sense of your posts.


The same could easily be said for most 18 year old boys. What's changed?

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#978934 - 06/20/08 03:51 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
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I'm with BF & FBH on this one.

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#978936 - 06/20/08 03:51 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
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We seem to be split into a couple of camps...

Camp 1.
45 year old has sex with 14 year old = This a bad thing. The 45 year old should be charged with statutory rape.

Camp 2.

45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old boy = Woo Hoo! High fives all around.
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old girl = Grrrrr! Shotguns! Pitchforks! Torches!
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old boy = Grrrrr! I told you they needed to recruit! That boy is ruined now!
45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old girl = Oooh! Is that on Showtime? Can I DVR it?

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#978938 - 06/20/08 03:52 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
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Originally Posted By: Bengalsfan
Originally Posted By: Jokerman
Good grief - have you ever actually met a 13-year old boy? They're about as capable of making responsible decisions as I am of making sense of your posts.


The same could easily be said for most 18 year old boys. What's changed?



That follows for many 50 year old men too!

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#978940 - 06/20/08 03:52 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Blade Scrapper
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SC, when i was stationed in AZ, the drinking age was 18 on base. They didn't want people heading to mexico to go drinking
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#978963 - 06/20/08 04:00 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
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camp 2 rocks! we beat up camp 1 and steal their gorp and arts and crafts supplies!

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#978971 - 06/20/08 04:06 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? kms
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Well I think the women involved in this were just plain stupid. Why in tarnation would a woman of that age want anything to do with a 15 year old no matter how mature the kid is?
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#978997 - 06/20/08 04:24 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? yy2say
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As a man, I would have loved to have this happen to me when I was 15, or right now for that matter, but as a father I'm thinking I would be pretty mad if this were my son. I'm thinking for these women to do this, there must be some mental issues going on, and I wouldn't want that kind of influence around my kids. Plus, having a daughter also, I can't help but think this might affect how these guys treat girls going forward.

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#979009 - 06/20/08 04:27 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
We seem to be split into a couple of camps...

Camp 1.
45 year old has sex with 14 year old = This a bad thing. The 45 year old should be charged with statutory rape.

Camp 2.

45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old boy = Woo Hoo! High fives all around.
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old girl = Grrrrr! Shotguns! Pitchforks! Torches!
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old boy = Grrrrr! I told you they needed to recruit! That boy is ruined now!
45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old girl = Oooh! Is that on Showtime? Can I DVR it?


You forgot your camp, camp blow it out of proportion and pretend people said something they didn't.

I know I for one said I'm not sure about 14 year old girls. I've never been one, so I can't guess at what they are thinking. Heck, I can't even guess at what 18, 28, 38, 48, or 88 year old women are thinking. I have the wrong chromosomes.

And I don't remember homosexuality coming in anywhere until you brought it up either.

All I'm saying is that 18 is an arbitrary age, and I'm not sure it's right. Why is is license to drive at 16, license for sex at 18, and license to drink at 21? Either we are ready to be an adult at 16 or at 21. Myself, I think it is 13. Do young kids make mad choices? Yes. Why? Because people make bad choices at any age, AND we baby them and try to protect them from the real world instead of preparing them for it.

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#979016 - 06/20/08 04:32 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
Hrothgar Geiger Offline
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Fine. I'm just not leaving any underage girls in your care.

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#979017 - 06/20/08 04:33 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
rainman Offline
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
We seem to be split into a couple of camps...

Camp 1.
45 year old has sex with 14 year old = This a bad thing. The 45 year old should be charged with statutory rape.

Camp 2.

45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old boy = Woo Hoo! High fives all around.
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old girl = Grrrrr! Shotguns! Pitchforks! Torches!
45 year old man has sex with 14 year old boy = Grrrrr! I told you they needed to recruit! That boy is ruined now!
45 year old woman has sex with 14 year old girl = Oooh! Is that on Showtime? Can I DVR it?


sigh. Do you always have to make a farce out of the other guy's position? I'm in camp 1, but camp 2 isn't saying what you say they are.
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#979019 - 06/20/08 04:33 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? Hrothgar Geiger
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BF: Liberal Position
AMLB: Conservative Position
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#979024 - 06/20/08 04:37 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? rainman
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Quote:
I'm in camp 1

you'd better believe that your gorp is the first that i go for!

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#979027 - 06/20/08 04:38 PM Re: QB, Coed Sleepover? B_F
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Well, FBH and BF, consider that we live MUCH longer than they did in Farragut and Franklin's day. They had to grow up much faster - they didn't have as much time as we do today. Our Children have 60 years or more of adult decisions and living with the consequences. Let them have their childhood unencumbered with unnecessary complications and enticements. We can prepare our kids for adulthood and for making sound decisions without throwing them into situations that prey on their feelings instead of their brain/conscience/morals.
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