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#985715 - 07/01/08 03:44 PM Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal)
straw Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
what message does it send to our allies, straw?


That we are not willing to support our allies (Iraq) in this case.
That we are vulnerable to assymetrical warfare
That we are a paper superpower because we are not willing to face tough fights
That we will abandon course in the face of casualties.

What message do you think it sends to our allies?

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#985737 - 07/01/08 03:57 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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when did i say that i favored the plan to withdrawal? may i not ask about what your fears for international perception are?

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#985744 - 07/01/08 03:59 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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Not what I asked. I asked you what message you think it sends.

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#985947 - 07/01/08 06:21 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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#985955 - 07/01/08 06:25 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) TheManofSteel
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if the question was for me, he could've asked me in a PM. i'm not the one positing concerns about sending messages to allies. it's like asking me "tell me why the W strategy for war was so successful" umm, shouldn't you be asking the people who thought it was successful?

my opinion about iraq is that one poorly-planned power vacuum was enough there. sure, the troops need to get out of there but i don't favor any timetables.

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#985974 - 07/01/08 06:35 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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In other words, you do not have any idea, nor given any thought to, what the consequences of a troop withdrawal could be.

What about the message our troop's presence send to our allies? Have you thought about that?

And since when do we discuss these things in a PM. But feel free to PM with your thoughts, if you have any.

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#985978 - 07/01/08 06:39 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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it's odd for me to think of it since i am against just pulling out. but sure, you can pile your ideas on top of mine (based on what it would do to iraq). sounds good to me!

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#985981 - 07/01/08 06:40 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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Originally Posted By: straw
But feel free to PM with your thoughts, if you have any.

That'll be a short PM.

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#985986 - 07/01/08 06:41 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
it's odd for me to think of it since i am against just pulling out. but sure, you can pile your ideas on top of mine (based on what it would do to iraq). sounds good to me!



Wow. So never thought about looking at the other side's argument and trying to see pros and cons of that.

And please show me where to pile my ideas on top of yours. Haven't seen those yet. Or are those coming by PM?

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#985993 - 07/01/08 06:44 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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well, if my thoughts are primarily grounded in what will happen if we leave, why do i need alternative reasons? i see a huge con right there; a con bigger than the pros they posit. i'll get the kitchen sink when i need it. *yawn*

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#985998 - 07/01/08 06:46 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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what will hapeen if we leave?

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#986000 - 07/01/08 06:47 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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Slaughter, which in turn the Obama Admin, the presumptive presidency if we left b/f completion, would blame on the Bush Admin.
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#986008 - 07/01/08 06:50 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) TheManofSteel
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I was hoping the great Ronno might have some insight.

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#986009 - 07/01/08 06:50 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) TheManofSteel
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So wait, Ron has a bunch of criticism but no actual ideas?
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#986014 - 07/01/08 06:57 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Sound Tactic
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Originally Posted By: Visionary Harry
So wait, Ron has a bunch of criticism but no actual ideas?

so wait...actually, wtf was i criticizing, shemp-o? i don't recall criticism at all. straw wants me to list an opponents arguments. i don't feel like it. i think that they can think for themselves. straw was just a bit sour because i had the audacity to ask him the ways that our leaving would hurt allies since he said it was a factor involved in the iraq issue.

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#986105 - 07/01/08 08:08 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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No I am a bit sour because you have no concrete ideas of your own. Asked you to list them, you said add my ideas to yours, which you have never listed. tautological isn't it.

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#986275 - 07/01/08 09:33 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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#986281 - 07/01/08 09:36 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Sound Tactic
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Any progress will be taken as a sign we can bring the boys home and any setbacks will be taken as a sign we can bring the boys home.

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#986364 - 07/02/08 12:12 AM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Sound Tactic
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Only two of the benchmarks — enacting and implementing laws to disarm militias and distribute oil revenues — remained "unsatisfactory."

other than that, how was the play mrs. lincoln?

(j, was that ok?)

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#986578 - 07/02/08 01:57 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Hated By Some
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You mean, is it ok to continue to abuse that metaphor? No.

And beyond the progress to codify those goals, is oil revenue being shared, and are militias being disarmed?

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#986696 - 07/02/08 03:10 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) Jokerman
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By golly if we don't have laws to disarm and distribute then nothing is being done. Would be much better to have laws than actual progress.

Any progress being made in Iraq or is it all just an illusion?

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#986702 - 07/02/08 03:14 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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If we get to 18 or 18 benchmarks, does that mean we can go into Iran? Just as in Risk, you have to be careful not to go one territory too far...
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#986704 - 07/02/08 03:16 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) FBH
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How many Risk cards do we have?

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#986775 - 07/02/08 03:57 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) straw
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We may be out...
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#986952 - 07/02/08 06:17 PM Re: Abandoning Iraq (orderly withdrawal) FBH
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Then no Iran would not be next, but you may be mistaken about the risk cards.

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