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#986416 - 07/02/08 03:29 AM Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory
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http://sweetness-light.com/archive/the-amazing-hypocrisy-of-jim-webb

The above link shows the commercial he ran lauding his military service by President Reagan, but in the article below the video, he criticizes John McCain for ads pointing to his military record.
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#986459 - 07/02/08 12:34 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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he would make a great running mate for the BO
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#986469 - 07/02/08 12:41 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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His party has never quite decided whether they like military experience or not. In his campaign against John McCain, Shrub ran ads criticizing McCain's military background.

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#986478 - 07/02/08 12:54 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
His party has never quite decided whether they like military experience or not. In his campaign against John McCain, Shrub ran ads criticizing McCain's military background.


military background or position on veterans? - 2000 was a long time ago -------------------------
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#986488 - 07/02/08 01:07 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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i guess there is no executive difference in running the navy and being a pow. i mean, why even make a distinction?

"donít be standing up and uttering your political views and implying that all the people in the military support them because they donít...

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#986492 - 07/02/08 01:09 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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You're right, Pale, the construction of the ads was usually something like "Yes, he served his country but his position on (defense spending/weapons programs/veterans programs/etc) is so wrong as to approach unpatriotic."

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#986500 - 07/02/08 01:16 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
i guess there is no executive difference in running the navy and being a pow. i mean, why even make a distinction?

"donít be standing up and uttering your political views and implying that all the people in the military support them because they donít...


See, in addition to rendering any criticism of his military record, the very fact that John McCain has never even remotely implied that all U.S. Military personnel support his views shows that Jim Webb was using this instance to voice criticism of McCain's allusions to his military service. I am utterly certain you had a problem with the SWIFT Boat Vets criticizing John Kerry, which by the way, McCain publicly lambasted for doing so.
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#986516 - 07/02/08 01:28 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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Quote:
John McCain has never even remotely implied that all U.S. Military personnel support his views

i'm not too sure about that. but i am positive that his "surrogates" have implied that.

Quote:
I am utterly certain you had a problem with the SWIFT Boat Vets criticizing John Kerry, which by the way, McCain publicly lambasted for doing so.

the criticism from clark at least was that his military experience =/= executive experience particularly with respect to the military. the criticism from the swiftboaters was quite different: it was to paint him as unpatriotic.

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#986530 - 07/02/08 01:35 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
John McCain has never even remotely implied that all U.S. Military personnel support his views

i'm not too sure about that. but i am positive that his "surrogates" have implied that.

Quote:
I am utterly certain you had a problem with the SWIFT Boat Vets criticizing John Kerry, which by the way, McCain publicly lambasted for doing so.

the criticism from clark at least was that his military experience =/= executive experience particularly with respect to the military. the criticism from the swiftboaters was quite different: it was to paint him as unpatriotic.


I think Clark's criticism is weak. McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam, and also was largely responsible for the leadership and morale of his fellow POWs. That speaks a greaqt deal to his constitution and character, which I might add, unlike Wesley Clark's, has never been a subject of criticism. His temper yes, but hs ability to lead...
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#986551 - 07/02/08 01:42 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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Quote:
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


"That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded ó that wasnít a wartime squadron."

again, the criticism is over claiming military leadership experience for the purpose of it translating to executive experience. every add that i have seen of mccain has been a flag-waving-there's-john-as-a-POW fest. and you say that he doesn't imply that he is connected with how military personnel feel.

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#986561 - 07/02/08 01:45 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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as a political strategy, this attack on McCain by the BO team has not been particularly successful,

don't you think?....................
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#986566 - 07/02/08 01:47 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
as a political strategy, this attack on McCain by the BO team has not been particularly successful,

don't you think?....................


says one GOP nut to another...

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#986577 - 07/02/08 01:57 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


"That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded ó that wasnít a wartime squadron."

again, the criticism is over claiming military leadership experience for the purpose of it translating to executive experience. every add that i have seen of mccain has been a flag-waving-there's-john-as-a-POW fest. and you say that he doesn't imply that he is connected with how military personnel feel.


Ron, that is really reaching. The criticism is that his political positions reflect all military personnel because he was in the military. He had a command, one he worked well and did not receive criticism for, unlike Wesley Clark who receives frequent criticisms from men who served under or along side him. And this"flag-waving rah rah" bit of yours has gotten really old, and is akin to the John Edwards nonsense that the war on terror is a bumper sticker slogan. Really, get over it dude.
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#986580 - 07/02/08 01:59 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
as a political strategy, this attack on McCain by the BO team has not been particularly successful,

don't you think?....................

I certainly think it has scored more points for McCain, because it shows more and more how much the Dem leadership lacks any substance.

However, give credit where it is due, Obama did come out, and not long after, and defended McCain's POW experience against what the doofus Clark stated.

OK, I just read Happy's thread about many thinking Obama puts his peeps up to the criticisms to set himself up as moderate and amiable. Thus, what i have posted here, the jury is still out.
Last edited by RiskMasterBSA; 07/02/08 02:03 PM.
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#986584 - 07/02/08 02:03 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: RiskMasterBSA
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


Um, no he didn't. He commanded a training squadron after his return from Viet Nam. And that experience does truly qualify as 'executive' experience.

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#986614 - 07/02/08 02:10 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: RiskMasterBSA
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


Um, no he didn't. He commanded a training squadron after his return from Viet Nam. And that experience does truly qualify as 'executive' experience.


why not?

there were 1,000 people in that squad, weren't there?

was he relieved of this duty, like a 3-star general after doing such a great job in Bosnia?

y'all are going to find yourselves under the bus!!!!!
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#986627 - 07/02/08 02:15 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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Pale, sweetie, did you actually read what I wrote?
" And that experience does truly qualify as 'executive' experience."

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#986645 - 07/02/08 02:22 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hrothgar Geiger
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Barbie dear, did you mean that, or is your statement dripping with sarcasm?

if you meant to support McCain's military experience after returning from Viet Nam (including never throwing his medals over the White House fence)

then please accept my most humble apologies, and join us in the foxhole -----
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#986646 - 07/02/08 02:23 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hrothgar Geiger
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Originally Posted By: AML-Barbarian
Originally Posted By: RiskMasterBSA
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


Um, no he didn't. He commanded a training squadron after his return from Viet Nam. And that experience does truly qualify as 'executive' experience.


Yup my bad on the timing of his command.

In addition, he was instrumental in responding to the worst maritime fire disaster ever recorded in the U.S. Navy. That stands out as crisis management experience IMHO.
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#986658 - 07/02/08 02:35 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
Barbie dear, did you mean that, or is your statement dripping with sarcasm?


I meant it. Once upon a time I worked for a base commander, I know what's involved.

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#986680 - 07/02/08 02:49 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory TheManofSteel
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Originally Posted By: RiskMasterBSA

In addition, he was instrumental in responding to the worst maritime fire disaster ever recorded in the U.S. Navy. That stands out as crisis management experience IMHO.


Please don't oversell Sen. McCain's experience during the Forestall fire. He got out of his jet, and helped another pilot out of their jet. He was brave, and cool in an emergency, no doubt.

If anyone deserves kissy points for crisis management during that incident, it's LCDR Hope, who assumed command of a fire control team.

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#986694 - 07/02/08 03:06 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Hated By Some
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Originally Posted By: Ronzilla
Quote:
McCain commanded one of the largest naval fighter squadrons in 'Nam


"That large squadron in the Navy that he commanded ¬— that wasn¬’t a wartime squadron."

again, the criticism is over claiming military leadership experience for the purpose of it translating to executive experience. every add that i have seen of mccain has been a flag-waving-there's-john-as-a-POW fest. and you say that he doesn't imply that he is connected with how military personnel feel.


What experience does Obama point to to demonstrate his executive experience?

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#986707 - 07/02/08 03:17 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory straw
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I think I heard Gen. Clark say its the BO's judgement on the Iraq war that demonstrates his ability to lead ---

isn't that right?
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#986726 - 07/02/08 03:26 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory straw
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straw, since when is obama trying to associate himself with being the military one stop shop candidate? this is, indeed, a very isolated, one-sided critique for people who get caught up in the flag-waving.

although i will answer your question by saying that obama's campaign strategy/governance is quite remarkable from a human capital management/efficiency perspective. he had a plan, it was unorthodox, he stuck with it through tough times and now it seems to have him in the drivers seat.

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#986727 - 07/02/08 03:27 PM Re: Senator Jim Webb Has A Very Short Memory Pale Rider
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Originally Posted By: Pale Rider
I think I heard Gen. Clark say its the BO's judgement on the Iraq war that demonstrates his ability to lead ---

isn't that right?

gosh, making decisions strategically is something that a president should never do...

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