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#99312 - 07/25/03 01:05 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 660
KY
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i would say i am a 99% party line voter, not out of blind faith in my party but because those who are members of my party and who run for office tend to be those who do aligin most with my thoughts on issues of import. only three times ever have i voted against party... i truly had faith that the other person would handle the postion much better... in the case of our mayor, the person i did vote for didn't win and now we are living through the mistakes i knew the person from my party would make... it's a nightmare.
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#99314 - 07/25/03 01:31 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
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Quote:
I don't think the purpose of voting is to send the person who will "do the best job". It seems to me that when people vote, they vote for those candidates whose views and actions most align with theirs. The hopes of these voters is that those elected will speak and act out of these views, in the hopes that the legislation and actions of the government will be driven by people who hold to their view of the world.
I think your analysis of what most people think and do in the voting process is right on the money. However, I also think it is a fundamentally flawed approach. The idea of a republican government ("I pledge allegiance to the flag . . . and to the republic for which it stands") is not that you attempt to elect the person who completes the beliefs and opinions questionnaire the same as you do, because one person simply cannot meet that standard. By that standard, we should elect pollsters, because they could most accurately divine the will of the electorate (which is, of course, a chimera subject to frequent and whimsical variations). We should be seeking to elect those who would most fairly, most efficiently, and most honestly govern. Sadly, I fear that many people who could meet that standard shun public service because of the unrelenting media scrutiny and the ever looming spectre of the political correctness police.
It's not a perfect process by any stretch of the imagination, but I still think it's by far the best system to govern fallible, sinful human beings.
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Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. Peter Drucker
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#99315 - 07/25/03 01:41 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
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Quote:
I vote and will until I die.
If you move to Chicago, you won't have to stop voting when you die. 
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#99317 - 07/25/03 02:08 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,678
United States
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I'll go with you on the efficiency and honesty part, but I would submit to you that John and Jane Q. Public couldn't care less about what's "fair". What I mean by that is that people act and vote in the political arena based on their concept of what is "right" not what is "fair". "Fairness" means you defer to all groups, but human beings are not "fair". At the heart of it, people really only want their way, and they will align themselves with other humans who see it their way. That's why we have political parties, and that's why the average three year old exhibits more maturity than most of your elected officials.
This is why our country is the greatest in the world, and always will be. Built into our political process is a period of compromise, where all sides sit down to hammer out a conclusion that (ideally) everyone can live with. You can call it "fair" if you want to, I guess, but no matter who you elect, they have been sent to represent a group of people who hold to their ideas, and so they are going to seek the advancement of those ideas and their concept of what is "right" (that is, of course, without regard to whether what each group perceives as right is actually right).
Sorry. I like a good political discussion.
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Opinions expressed are solely my own.
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#99319 - 07/25/03 03:06 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Gold Star
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Quote:
One does not have to vote strictly along party lines, but if you cannot figure out what party you mostly identify with you are lost and should consider not voting.
That is a horrible statement. You should never discourage someone from voting. We have terrible turnout in this country as it is. I don't believe I identify with any party more than the other. I vote and will until I die.
As for getting information about who can do the best job I do my research. I find out a candidates history and what they have done in the past. Unlike the stock market it is a good indication of what they will do in the future.
It may be a horrible statement to you, but that does not make it not true. If you don't align with a party and you don't do the research, don't vote.
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#99321 - 07/25/03 03:12 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,494
MI
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I'm with you - I respect Dr. Laura's views, but I do think she cuts people off too early sometimes, and doesn't seem to hear their question. I forget that she has call screeners who feed her information from the caller. She probably has more info than the listeners realize she has, so it sounds more abrupt.
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Opinions are mine and never to be taken as legal advice!
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#99322 - 07/25/03 03:12 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Power Poster
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,706
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T...I agree more with your last statement. Before you didn't qualify your statement. If you are not informed or have no idea what is happening I don't think you should vote for the sake of voting. You don't ever want to hear, "I voted for the candidate who looks better in a tie." 
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#99324 - 07/25/03 04:38 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 598
Flushing, NY
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I used to beleive that party affiliation was important but not so much anymore. I never did vote along party lines unless it came to voting where I didn't have any other knowledge of the candidates. For example, you are asked to vote for judges and the like, were you never get any info on them at all. Unless you know them personally, they are not even mentioned in the paper when the slate is given.
But here in beautiful, peacefull NYC, during the last election, the republican candidate was a democrat who switched parties because he knew the democratic primary would be too crowded, and one of the democratic primary choices was a republican who switched during the previous race so as not to have to face Guiliani, so party affiliation is not what it used to be.
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#99325 - 07/25/03 04:40 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,719
PA
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Not impossible, T, but can be difficult depending on what views, philosophies, and issues are important to the individual. For example, folks who vote on 'hot button' issues such as abortion, affirmitave action, gun control, or capital punishment (to name a few) usually have no problem determining where a candiate stands. For less talked about matters, the research definitely can be more difficult.
Of course, these strategies are only effective when applied to a legislative or executive position, and are of little assistance when casting your vote for the state Auditor General...
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#99327 - 07/25/03 05:09 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Gold Star
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 484
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Quote:
Not impossible, T, but can be difficult depending on what views, philosophies, and issues are important to the individual. For example, folks who vote on 'hot button' issues such as abortion, affirmitave action, gun control, or capital punishment (to name a few) usually have no problem determining where a candiate stands.
You make good points, but it is impossible for the average person that has a family, a job, a life. As far as one issue voters are concerned, a candidate may vote the way you want them to on your issue, but that doesn't mean that they believe it's the right thing to do - just the right political thing to do.
Voting is easy if you are extreme on any of the major issues and when you are an extreme Republican or Democrat, it's a lot harder for those of us who seek the middle ground, the reasonable compromise to get thing moving for all of us. Just going the independent route just doesn't make it.
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#99328 - 07/25/03 05:47 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Power Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,568
New Jersey
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Quote:
I'll go with you on the efficiency and honesty part, but I would submit to you that John and Jane Q. Public couldn't care less about what's "fair". What I mean by that is that people act and vote in the political arena based on their concept of what is "right" not what is "fair". "Fairness" means you defer to all groups, but human beings are not "fair". At the heart of it, people really only want their way, and they will align themselves with other humans who see it their way. That's why we have political parties, and that's why the average three year old exhibits more maturity than most of your elected officials.
I agree with you again: generally speaking, voters don't care what's fair. That's why we need elected officials who do care. Unfortunately, they are in short supply; we have far too many politicians and far too few statesman.
Too many elected officials pander to what will benefit (usually in an economic sense) their district, and thus get him or her reelected, rather than what might better benefit the body public in a larger sense. For example, even though another location for a new government contract might be more cost effective, and thus better for taxpayers, I want it in my district, so I can say I brought home the bacon and keep my voters happy.
Perhaps if we had term limits, and elected officials knew that they could not be reelected again, they might do the right thing and not the politically popular thing. Perhaps. But then again, a representative government is just that: representative of the electorate. My elected officials, c'est moi.
_________________________
Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things. Peter Drucker
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#99330 - 11/19/03 06:56 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Any Dittohead - de-dittoized after the fiasco?
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#99331 - 11/19/03 06:59 PM
Re: Dittoheads??
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,678
United States
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Not this one.
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