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#999339 - 07/18/08 06:48 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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10K Club
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Posts: 13,603
Somewhere vanilla
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If the first part is a catchall, why would they even write anything beyond it? who the **** said it was other than you trying to put an arguyment that i didn't make into my mouth?! my God man!
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#999353 - 07/18/08 06:53 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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If Congress can enact laws for anything in furtherance of the general welfare, why did they write anything about specific powers? they can SPEND on the general welfare. the other enumerated things are for creating rules/laws, etc!
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#999356 - 07/18/08 06:54 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
Hated By Some
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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If Congress can enact laws for anything in furtherance of the general welfare, why did they write anything about specific powers? they can SPEND on the general welfare. the other enumerated things are for creating rules/laws, etc! Wow, spending is not tied to laws/rules? Congress doesn't pass laws to spend. You heard it here first folks.
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#999361 - 07/18/08 06:56 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,603
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If Congress can enact laws TO SPEND ON the general welfare, why did they write anything about specific powers? fixed Try again Mr. two bar licenses. i was called a wannabe lawyer. i said that i had 2 forms of proof that there is no wannabe involved.
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#999364 - 07/18/08 07:00 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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10K Club
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 13,603
Somewhere vanilla
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If Congress can enact laws for anything in furtherance of the general welfare, why did they write anything about specific powers? they can SPEND on the general welfare. the other enumerated things are for creating rules/laws, etc! Wow, spending is not tied to laws/rules? Congress doesn't pass laws to spend. You heard it here first folks. what other mechanic would allow 435 + 100 people agree on what they are going to spend on?
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#999370 - 07/18/08 07:01 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
Hated By Some
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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If Congress can enact laws for anything in furtherance of the general welfare, why did they write anything about specific powers? they can SPEND on the general welfare. the other enumerated things are for creating rules/laws, etc! Wow, spending is not tied to laws/rules? Congress doesn't pass laws to spend. You heard it here first folks. what other mechanic would allow 435 + 100 people agree on what they are going to spend on? Have you ever heard of an apporpriation bill?
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#999388 - 07/18/08 07:09 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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Posts: 13,603
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If they meant to spend on common defense and general welfare, why did they need to add these specific powers? Seems these powers would fit neatly under spending for the common defense, would they not?
"To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy; " clearly the defense half of the conjunction is the most troublesome. one could argue that this spending for defense might mean just giving the people muskets if they so choose. but either way, for the non-defense things, those are rules clearly aren't something that you "spend" for.
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#999391 - 07/18/08 07:10 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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Posts: 13,603
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Have you ever heard of an apporpriation bill? i haven't read the linked bill but my guess is that this law includes things touching other constitutional powers like commerce clause, etc.
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#999413 - 07/18/08 07:19 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
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Power Poster
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,121
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If they meant to spend on common defense and general welfare, why did they need to add these specific powers? Seems these powers would fit neatly under spending for the common defense, would they not?
"To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy; " clearly the defense half of the conjunction is the most troublesome. one could argue that this spending for defense might mean just giving the people muskets if they so choose. but either way, for the non-defense things, those are rules clearly aren't something that you "spend" for. So despite the anomaly, you are sure that the framers meant spending for the general welfare was not limited to the enumerated powers? And this makes perfect sense to you? And regarding providing muskets as spending for the common defense, why would the framers further add these clauses: "To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
Last edited by straw; 07/18/08 07:22 PM.
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#999493 - 07/18/08 08:01 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
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straw, i'm not going to agree with you on that point. certainly there are as many framers who shared my view as there are framers who shared yours.
how are we really "hurt" though? Name a framer who shares your view. And I didn't realize one had to be hurt to assert a Constitutional view. Congress oversteps its originally intended bounds every day. Congress is more remote, less accountable to local interests and that is why they were not meant too, and were even feared from being involved in local issues.
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#999499 - 07/18/08 08:08 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
straw
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10K Club
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Posts: 13,603
Somewhere vanilla
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hamilton you're the one who said hurt, not me. Congress is more remote, less accountable to local interests is this really attributable to a broad constitution? fwiw, anything that the general welfare clause would be ineffective for, the commerce clause has been and is a proxy for. the power in the people is in voting for their elected officials. we don't vote for people who are going to screw us. sure, we may disagree with philosophies, but i truly believe that they take their job seriously.
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#999509 - 07/18/08 08:15 PM
Re: Obama Is God, Ron Is His Prophet
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,068
Fortress of Solitude
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hamilton you're the one who said hurt, not me. Congress is more remote, less accountable to local interests is this really attributable to a broad constitution? fwiw, anything that the general welfare clause would be ineffective for, the commerce clause has been and is a proxy for. the power in the people is in voting for their elected officials. we don't vote for people who are going to screw us. sure, we may disagree with philosophies, but i truly believe that they take their job seriously. vote all you want Ron. The checks and balances were skewed long ago, early on in Constitutional history, when the judiciary appropriated powers never intended for it by the founders. The SCOTUS holds an imbalalnced proportion of the power relative to the congress and admin.
_________________________
"Beneath an ever watchful eye...the angels of the temple fly"
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