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#233194 - 08/18/04 02:55 AM This sounds like a joke
Anonymous
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... but it's a quote from the 9-11 Commission Report Chapter 10, note 75 on p. 559

“In a memo that appears to be from Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith to Rumsfeld, dated September 20 [2001], the author expressed disappointment at the limited options immediately available in Afghanistan and the lack of ground options. The author instead suggested hitting terrorists outside the Middle East in the initial offensive, perhaps deliberately selecting a non-al Qaeda target like Iraq. Since U.S. attacks were expected in Afghanistan, an American attack in South America or Southeast Asia might be a surprise to the terrorists.”

Yes, I'm sure everyone would have been surprised if we had attacked South America or S.E. Asia! Compared to those choices "a non-al Qaeda target like Iraq" doesn't sound as bad.

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#233195 - 08/18/04 01:16 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

... but it's a quote from the 9-11 Commission Report Chapter 10, note 75 on p. 559

“In a memo that appears to be from Under Secretary of Defense Douglas Feith to Rumsfeld, dated September 20 [2001], the author expressed disappointment at the limited options immediately available in Afghanistan and the lack of ground options. The author instead suggested hitting terrorists outside the Middle East in the initial offensive, perhaps deliberately selecting a non-al Qaeda target like Iraq. Since U.S. attacks were expected in Afghanistan, an American attack in South America or Southeast Asia might be a surprise to the terrorists.”

Yes, I'm sure everyone would have been surprised if we had attacked South America or S.E. Asia! Compared to those choices "a non-al Qaeda target like Iraq" doesn't sound as bad.




So your opinion is that we shouldn't concern ourselves with Al-Qaeda targets in, for example, the Philipines?

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#233196 - 08/18/04 04:26 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
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Quote:

So your opinion is that we shouldn't concern ourselves with Al-Qaeda targets in, for example, the Philipines?



Jokerman, I'm just curious. Have you been in the military or considered it?
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#233197 - 08/18/04 04:57 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
Jokerman Offline
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Jokerman, I'm just curious. Have you been in the military or considered it?




I have not been in the military. I have considered it.

Why do you ask? (I'm just curious.)

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#233198 - 08/18/04 05:04 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
blvsinangels Offline
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It appears that to have a strong conservative opinion you must have some connection to the military!! I guess in my life I have been connected with worse!!
Last edited by blvsinangels; 08/18/04 05:05 PM.
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#233199 - 08/18/04 06:49 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
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Quote:

Quote:

Jokerman, I'm just curious. Have you been in the military or considered it?




I have not been in the military. I have considered it.

Why do you ask? (I'm just curious.)




Because you are a staunch supporter of the war on terror - I just wondered if you were armchair quarterbacking or if you'd actually crawled through mud and sand with an M-16 or been trained on how to kill and hopefully not get killed in the process or given up a few years of your life to fight for the freedom we enjoy in this country.

Please don't take that as a slam - I just know that perspective changes when its your own @$$ on the line or a loved one is suddenly yanked out of your life for a year that extends to 18 months or longer because we're short on replacements. I just firmly believe that if we're going to continue to do this, then we'd better be prepared to do it right because, as you pointed out, the cost is in both treasure and blood and freedom has never come cheap.

If you're too old to join up, consider contacting a base in your area that has sent troops over - there's a lot of kids that could use a Big Brother in their lives while they give up having their dad at home with them.
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#233200 - 08/18/04 07:00 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

Because you are a staunch supporter of the war on terror - I just wondered if you were armchair quarterbacking or if you'd actually crawled through mud and sand with an M-16 or been trained on how to kill and hopefully not get killed in the process or given up a few years of your life to fight for the freedom we enjoy in this country.




Are you saying that only those who serve in the military should be allowed to set policy? Only those who served should be able to vote? Only those who served should be eligible for elective office?

If you don't believe any of those, why is my opinion any less relevant? Or perhaps more accurately, why should I fear expressing it? As someone who admirably served our nation, protecting freedom, I am quite frankly flummoxed that you would try to bully me on such an issue.

Quote:

Please don't take that as a slam - I just know that perspective changes when its your own @$$ on the line or a loved one is suddenly yanked out of your life for a year that extends to 18 months or longer because we're short on replacements. I just firmly believe that if we're going to continue to do this, then we'd better be prepared to do it right because, as you pointed out, the cost is in both treasure and blood and freedom has never come cheap.




Don't assume that I have no loved ones directly involved in this conflict (or previous ones).

Quote:

If you're too old to join up, consider contacting a base in your area that has sent troops over - there's a lot of kids that could use a Big Brother in their lives while they give up having their dad at home with them.




A fine suggestion.

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#233201 - 08/18/04 07:19 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
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Quote:


Are you saying that only those who serve in the military should be allowed to set policy? Only those who served should be able to vote? Only those who served should be eligible for elective office?




Hardly. I think the perspective of all views is equally important whether it's in setting policy, voting, or serving in elective office. I was just curious about whether you'd served in the military because I was honestly concluding that either you'd never been in or that you were retired military or possibly a reservist. Just wanted to clarify it in my own mind.

Quote:

If you don't believe any of those, why is my opinion any less relevant? Or perhaps more accurately, why should I fear expressing it? As someone who admirably served our nation, protecting freedom, I am quite frankly flummoxed that you would try to bully me on such an issue.



I'm not trying to bully you, nor am I suggesting that you not express your view, nor do I find your view any less relevant - as St Francis said "First seek to understand". You have one of the most consistently vocal views in the threads - I decided it was time to stop reading and ask a few questions. Didn't mean to flummox you, frankly or otherwise - sorry!

Quote:

Don't assume that I have no loved ones directly involved in this conflict (or previous ones).



I would never assume that - at this point, I know far too many people with loved ones that are directly involved. I don't think anyone is completely untouched by Iraq at this point.

Quote:

If you're too old to join up, consider contacting a base in your area that has sent troops over - there's a lot of kids that could use a Big Brother in their lives while they give up having their dad at home with them.




A fine suggestion.




Go for it - you'll probably enjoy it. And if you have other suggestions on providing tangible support to those left behind, please add them. Maybe it's time to start another thread of ways we can all get involved in this thing.
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#233202 - 08/18/04 07:41 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
Jokerman Offline
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Quote:

I'm not trying to bully you, nor am I suggesting that you not express your view, nor do I find your view any less relevant - as St Francis said "First seek to understand". You have one of the most consistently vocal views in the threads - I decided it was time to stop reading and ask a few questions. Didn't mean to flummox you, frankly or otherwise - sorry!




I would explain my reaction by pointing to your use of the phrase "armchair quarterback" regarding my opinion.

I actually had a hard time accepting that this was an honest inquity and not a rhetorical device meant to somehow discredit my opinion. But if you say it wasn't, I will take it at that.

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#233203 - 08/18/04 07:59 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
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Quote:

I would explain my reaction by pointing to your use of the phrase "armchair quarterback" regarding my opinion.

I actually had a hard time accepting that this was an honest inquiry and not a rhetorical device meant to somehow discredit my opinion. But if you say it wasn't, I will take it at that.




Sorry about the armchair quarterback comment - there really was no pejorative intent there at all, but I can see where it could be interpreted that way. It's merely a phrase I use to differentiate the guys that watch the football game from the guys who play the game. Both have honest opinions - but the playing field looks different from the turf than it does from the bleachers. For all I knew this morning, you could have returned from a year in Iraqi sand a few months ago.

No harm, no foul. Just honestly curious.
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#233204 - 08/18/04 08:08 PM Re: This sounds like a joke
Jokerman Offline
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No harm, no foul. Just honestly curious.




Ok - that's cool.

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