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#444917 - 10/20/05 08:19 PM
Men vs Women on the job
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New Poster
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5
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Just wondering do you think it is possible for a women with a family to work in some of the top positions considering the hours?
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#444918 - 10/20/05 08:27 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 5,564
Clintonville, WI, USA
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I think it is possible, but something will give. If she gives all to the job, the family suffers; if she give all to the family, the job suffers. If she gives a little to each, both suffer; and if she gives all to each, then SHE will suffer from burnout.
Personally, I choose familiy. A job is just a job, and you can be phased out or the business sold or end up working with a jerk. Family stays with you a lot longer.
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#444919 - 10/20/05 08:28 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Shouldn't the question be: do you think it's possible for parents (that's both men and women) to work in some of the top positions considering the hours? Surely you're not suggesting that we limit top positions to those people without children? We will die-out!
Signed,
Another Anon
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#444920 - 10/20/05 08:55 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,181
Yinzerville, PA
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To be honest, the top positions should probably be held by people without families. In the mega-companies, you expect the leaders to be totally committed to the company, which likely includes long hours, extensive travel, etc. Woman, unlike men, are less likely to have stay-at-home spouses, willing to devote all of their time to the family, to make-up for the absense of the working spouse. Therefore, I think it would be very difficult for a woman with a family to be a top exec at a major company.
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#444921 - 10/20/05 08:59 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Or should the question be: what do men lose out on when they devote so many hours to their job as opposed to their family? Or what does their family lose? Maybe it's time to change the perception on how many hours are really needed for men and women to perform your job well!
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#444922 - 10/20/05 09:03 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,778
TEXAS
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Oh, Puddy, bite your tongue! I, a woman of top notch stature, have no problem juggling work and family. And, I might add, that I am a single mother. Suffer ye the little chilren, I think not. Now, because women are usually paid less than men, we have to work the long hours to make ends meet. See, here at my job, all the execs sit around and fiddle at their desks and go around pulling up their pants to their chest (eewwww), talking on the phone, etc. They get the credit while we slaaaaavvvvveee aawwwaaaayyyyyyy How do you think the men got there? 
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#444923 - 10/20/05 09:05 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,181
Yinzerville, PA
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The fact is we need these people that are willing to devote 80 hours a week to their job. It's certainly not for everyone, but it is needed.
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#444925 - 10/20/05 09:19 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
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80 hours a week is a little silly for any company, for any staff of any level. We do not expect the owners of the bank, let alone our senior management to work 80 hours a week.
Are there weeks when travel is extensive, sure, but 80 hours regularly...No. We would in fact discourage it because employees of any level without satisfactory family lifes do not make good employees in the long run.
There are many examples of successful women who are CEO's of companies that also have children. It's a known fact, given the number of women out there, that this is possible. The fact that the question is asked with women at the negative end of the prospective is not only unfair, but unreasonable.
Sort answer, yes of course. Do some research and see how many women AND MEN have strong families and also hold down top positions within large companies. There are many examples out there.
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Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen
CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.
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#444926 - 10/20/05 09:48 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,778
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Go get 'em tiger! Rowwrrr.
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#444927 - 10/20/05 09:52 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,858
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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Quote:
I can't think of one person who, while on their death bed, said they wished they'd spent more time in the office.
I believe eberyone who worked for Kinsey said this on their death bed...lol.
But seriously, senior management positions don't rquire you to put int he long hours, that is what you develop you staff for. To get to those positions you kill yourself, but once your their, it is all about the delegation and follow up.
The best boss I ever had was female, she was married but had no kids, came in about 9 every day and worked until 6:30 or 7. I came in at 7 and she was usually running me out by 5. Sadly, the worst boss I've ever had was also female. She was single, and lived to work. Didn't think anything was wrong with working 12-14 hour days, and expected all of the management under her do the same. I explained that her expectations were unrealistic.
I don't have an issue with working long hours when it is called for, I have an issue with working long hours because someone thinks it looks good.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#444928 - 10/21/05 05:05 AM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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As a recent cancer survivor, I have to say that my priorities have been radically changed and work is way down on the list now. My family comes first - always.
But even though it isn't as critical to me any longer, I find that I get more done at work in less time because I don't get involved in office politics any longer. I don't spend time listening to gossip or worrying about what the IT Manager really meant by that comment in the meeting or any of the rest of it. And I was recently promoted, so I seem to be doing something right.
I am there to do my job to the best of my abilities. When I am away from work I do the mom/wife thing to the best of my abilities.
Yes, people can do both. It's not always easy, but it is always possible.
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#444929 - 10/21/05 12:36 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Registered going anon. I recently left my job because I was requested to put in more hours and have a family. In the past I did put in 50 to 60 hours (not recently). I watched my Senior VP (a woman) put in numerous hours and as we were on her yacht, she was laughing telling me how she found pot in her 14/15 year old daughters Nieman Marcus purse. After she landed in Europe, the nanny called telling her that her daughter had run away with some older man. Clearly her work had caused her to neglect her child.
Not to mention that this woman has had numerous husbands. This is not to say this is indicative of all successful women, but she is certainly an example of a woman that can't have it all. Her work life is clearly sucessful, but her personal life is a mess. She drives very expensive cars, has several homes, main home in an expensive area, travels extensively to wonderful locations and is a bomb shell to look at. But her child is suffering due to all the "step dads" and lack of the mothers attention.
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#444930 - 10/21/05 01:14 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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10K Club
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 19,858
Pulling people out of the ditc...
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I fail to see a correlation between her work and the daughter being a mess. Work does not cause anyone to neglaect a child, it limits the amount of time you can spend with someone. Neglect is just that, and is caused by the person, nothing else.
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Providing alternative truths since the invention of time
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#444931 - 10/21/05 01:27 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,778
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I spend on average 2-3 hours a day with my kids which I admit is not a lot. This excludes weekends. But they are not suffering. Those few hours are made quality time. Its not necessarily the quantity of time that matters. IF, that story is true, the child would be suffering from lack of discipline and "hangin" with the wrong crowd. IMHO, the daughter is making bad choices.  Unfortunately, if the mother laughs about the marijuana and dismisses it, then yet another mother who had no business having children.
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#444932 - 10/21/05 01:34 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,181
Yinzerville, PA
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I took the original question to be referring to the type of positions that require people to work seven days a week, or to be on a plane three weeks a month flying all over the world. Can people juggle work and families working in management at the local bank? Sure.
I'll use Condaleeza Rice as an example. She is obviously on the job seven-days-a-week, flying all over the place. Could she handle this, and be a good mother? No way. But she has chosen to sacrifice family life for her career. Is this for everyone, no, but we as a country need the kind of people who are willing to make this sacrifice. I asumme that the huge companies of the world are much the same.
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#444934 - 10/21/05 04:58 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Platinum Poster
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 730
Maine
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Quote:
Registered going anon. I recently left my job because I was requested to put in more hours and have a family. In the past I did put in 50 to 60 hours (not recently). I watched my Senior VP (a woman) put in numerous hours and as we were on her yacht, she was laughing telling me how she found pot in her 14/15 year old daughters Nieman Marcus purse. After she landed in Europe, the nanny called telling her that her daughter had run away with some older man. Clearly her work had caused her to neglect her child.
Not to mention that this woman has had numerous husbands. This is not to say this is indicative of all successful women, but she is certainly an example of a woman that can't have it all. Her work life is clearly sucessful, but her personal life is a mess. She drives very expensive cars, has several homes, main home in an expensive area, travels extensively to wonderful locations and is a bomb shell to look at. But her child is suffering due to all the "step dads" and lack of the mothers attention.
Was this the immaculate conception, or does her child also have a father? Seems like it might not just be lack of MOTHERs attention. Even if mom has a series of husbands, that doesn't excuse the girl's father from not stepping in a providing some of what the mother isn't providing! Lots of men who put in lots of hours only have a successful family life because they have a partner taking up all the slack. Maybe if this woman had a supportive man in her life it wouldn't be such a mess!
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#444935 - 10/21/05 05:06 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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why not, its becoming more and more common for the leading mothers to have high goals. to put down the bottle and pick up the pen! I believe it is very possible that a woman could very possibly work in some of the top positions in this country.. except presidency, that will never happen.
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#444936 - 10/21/05 05:36 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,249
Indiana
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Quote:
except presidency, that will never happen.
Some think it will happen in 2008. Seriously, though, we elect women as senators and governors. Why not president?
Ladies, care to take issue with anon's statement??
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#444937 - 10/21/05 09:26 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
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Why can't Condeleeza Rice travel with a nanny and raise a child? Many women do, and the children turn out just fine. It's the quality of the time that is spent with them that matters, more so than just "hours" put in with the child. I don't know about anyone else here, but I know stay at home mothers who have raised monsters. It has nothing to do with their "job" and more to do with their parenting skills.
2008 grm? You're thinking Hilary? I think not. I wouldn't say that there will never be a female president, but we have many barriers to break before that happens. There are too many sexist men voting as well as goofy women who think a woman with a job is unnatural. They're going to have to die off first...and hopefully raise children with more open views before we see a woman in the White House who isn't there to clean it.
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Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen
CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.
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#444938 - 10/21/05 11:54 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,172
Further South than I wanna be.
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Dawnie for President.
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Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way you cope with it is what makes the difference.
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#444939 - 10/22/05 12:04 AM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
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Good gravy, I'm too busy to answer emails...president would kill me!!!  Besides that...I'm waiting for a better title...Queen  Wanna share a crown with me?
_________________________
Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen
CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.
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#444940 - 10/24/05 03:18 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Diamond Poster
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,249
Indiana
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Quote:
You're thinking Hilary? I think not. I wouldn't say that there will never be a female president, but we have many barriers to break before that happens. There are too many sexist men voting as well as goofy women who think a woman with a job is unnatural. They're going to have to die off first...and hopefully raise children with more open views before we see a woman in the White House who isn't there to clean it.
I was referring to Hillary, although note that I don't think she can win in 2008. I'm not convinced she'll run either. I do think that much of the opposition to Hillary involves a bit of sexism. That said, I think she's too polarizing a figure to be elected.
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#444941 - 10/24/05 06:53 PM
Re: Men vs Women on the job
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Power Poster
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,353
Anchorage Alaska
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Well she's a strong woman who states her views, so obviously she's not liked by half the 50+ men out there (too threatening) And then there are women like me who don't care for her because she stood by her man I'd have more respect if she'd have kicked him to the curb and moved on without that dog on her leash. What we need is to wait ohhhh 40 years for all those old guys to die, then we need a Margaret Thatcher type
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Dawn Coursey VP/CRA Queen
CRA Rating is in...Oh who cares...I'm home with the baby.
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