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#2185106 - 07/12/18 02:48 PM B/O and church
tacticalerror Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6
Hi all! I have vacation hangover, and just need to get this straight in my head before I open my mouth!

A local church has provided us with Cert. of Inc. and wants to open new accts. So we have to do beneficial ownership-correct? I've asked if they are 501c3, and have not gotten a response yet, if they are, then all we need is the control prong completed, correct? If not, then we're doing the whole enchilada. Am I on the right track?

Thanks in advance!

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#2185123 - 07/12/18 03:18 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
#Just Jay Offline
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#Just Jay
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Cheeseheadland
Maybe I am missing something here, but this is like the third time in two days I have seen reference to the entities 501c3 status as a determining factor in the cert completion.

They appear to be a legal entity in your state, so you ask them if anyone owns 25% or more of the entity. Being a church I would imagine in virtually all scenarios, that answer will be no, so you just move onto the control prong. I think it is simpler to ask the silly easy question rather than seeking out there 501c3 status, unless that is part of your normal account undewriting/CIP process.

I feel like I am missing something here.
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#2185129 - 07/12/18 03:31 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
tacticalerror Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
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Maybe I should have given some more info. In this instance we are not talking about the traditional church, such as the 'Yourtownhere Episcopal Church'. This is a group of family members that are starting their own church with services being held in a rented facility. Now, I will admit as a non-practicing person of any organized religion, I may be a bit naïve in the inner workings of organizing a church, which is why I'm asking. They have come to us, asking what they need to open the account, and I'm trying to cover all bases

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#2185149 - 07/12/18 04:46 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
RockChucker, CAMS Offline
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The Country
There is a carve out in BO for non-profit legal entities. While they are still subject to BO, they are exempt from the ownership prong and only need to provide the control prong.
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#2185151 - 07/12/18 05:10 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
#Just Jay Offline
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#Just Jay
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Cheeseheadland
You are correct... I was misreading it as seeking proof/evidence of said status before moving ahead rather than take their statement as such. Read and responded too quickly.
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#2185156 - 07/12/18 05:25 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
BrianC Online
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BrianC
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Illinois
If you need a citation, review the April 3 FinCEN FAQ’s which specifically state that non-profits do not have to be a 501(c)(3) to only need the control prong. The only difference is that one non-profits donations are tax deductible and the other is not. We treat them the same for beneficial ownership. Control prong only.
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#2185210 - 07/12/18 08:34 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
Adam Witmer Offline
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Great point, Brian. To add to that, the real question that should be asked is whether the non-profit is incorporated or an unincorporated association. If incorporated, the Certification Form (control prong only) is needed. If it is an unincorporated association, the Certification Form is not needed.
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All statements are my opinion, not those of my employer, and should not be taken as legal advice.
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#2185238 - 07/12/18 11:51 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
BrianC Online
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BrianC
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Illinois
Since the OP comments that the church provided a Cert. of Inc. I made th conclusion that we were dealing with a legal entity.
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#2188717 - 08/10/18 03:43 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
tacticalerror Offline
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Sorry to leave this hanging for so long-there are not enough hours in the day, sometimes.... Yes, the church did provide a Cert of Inc., so they are a legal entity. I guess where I get hung up is taking their word that they are non-profit. Just like taking their word for the rest of this. If we are taking legal entities at their word for the information provided, the I fail to see where Beneficial Ownership has any teeth. I could tell you that I am the queen of England, but that doesn't make it so......just venting some frustration...

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#2188792 - 08/10/18 08:42 PM Re: B/O and church tacticalerror
RockChucker, CAMS Offline
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The Country
Amen tacticalerror! Most worthless requirement ever. Just makes the honest people work harder.
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A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him.
-David Brinkley

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