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#2137078 - 07/06/17 03:06 PM CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help!
WillyWonka Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Midwest USA
So we have a weird situation....two scenarios:

1) Over the 4th weekend, a large national manufacturer (Company) had a tent sale across the street from our bank. Company is not our customer, nor is Bob, Steve, or Suzie. Bob came in during the day, with $7000 in cash, and asked to purchase a cashier check- simply to eliminate the risk of having all that excess cash. Bob states "this is Company's cash" and the cashier check is made to Company. Later in the day Suzie comes in with another $8000 in cash and does the same.

2) Next day, Steve brings in $12,000 in cash, and does the same - cashier check payable to Company.

Doing CTRs today and now we wonder - do we have a "on behalf of" situation, and Company should be listed on the CTR? Are both scenarios CTR reportable?

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#2137100 - 07/06/17 03:56 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
thomasj Offline
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,063
Pennsylvania
In my opinion both are reportable as the company is the beneficiary. We used to have a similar situation with traveling tent sales and carnivals where multiple individuals would come in during the course of the day - often at different branch locations - and make cashier's check purchases. Hopefully the front line collected information from the conductors - the first two transactions would be on the monetary instrument log, the third is a straight up CTR. Gathering the information from the company to complete the CTR may be a bit of a challenge. Thankfully we finally stopped selling monetary instruments to non-customers which virtually eliminated this issue.
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#2137102 - 07/06/17 04:02 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
edAudit Offline
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edAudit
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,796
You are here
I agree with thomasj and that is one of the many reasons why most banks will not give cashiers checks for non-customers. Their excess cash is not your banks problem.
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#2137128 - 07/06/17 05:36 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
RockChucker, CAMS Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,700
The Country
Jumping on the pile of those that think it is a foolish idea to sell cashiers checks to non-customers. It is not worth the hassle for the $5 bucks you are charging for the check.
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#2137151 - 07/06/17 07:25 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! RockChucker, CAMS
Cape Codder Offline
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 413
Pig pile!! On top of all the other issues with selling cashiers checks to non-customers, you also have to scrub those persons against any 314(a) lists for the next six months.
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#2137168 - 07/06/17 08:08 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
Elwood P. Dowd Offline
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Elwood P. Dowd
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 21,939
Next to Harvey
Hmm, your bank reloaded after the first self inflicted wound? Glad they didn't want to send a wire. wink
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#2137181 - 07/06/17 10:04 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! Elwood P. Dowd
WillyWonka Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Midwest USA
Wow everybody, thanks for all the replies!
@Ken_Pegasus - now you jinxed us - that will probably come tomorrow....


I'm still trying to wrap my head around Company being the benefactor in this situation, as they don't have an account with us. So I'd like to put a hypothetical out there:

Say I go into my bank (where I am a customer) with $12K cash in hand and order a cashier check made payable to Ford Motor Credit, for the purpose of paying off my non-customer girlfriend's car loan. Who is the benefactor in this situation? Will the bank need to obtain the information of my non-customer girlfriend?

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#2137195 - 07/07/17 12:51 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
thomasj Offline
Power Poster
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,063
Pennsylvania
Financial institutions are required to list all known beneficiaries of a transaction on a CTR. In your original post, it was very clear that you knew the situation and who the beneficiary of the transaction was. In some situations, the beneficiary information is not as clear; however, when you have knowledge of who the beneficiary of the transactions are, they should be listed on the CTR. In your second example, if his girlfriend's name is listed as the remitter on the cashier's check - there is a good argument that she is the beneficiary of the transaction and he is the conductor. This could take all kinds of twists and turns - you could have the same situation where he would deposit the cash into his account and then purchase the check by debiting his account - CTR on him for the cash deposit with him as the beneficiary. He could be buying the car from his girlfriend and paying off the existing loan - he's the beneficiary. You train your staff to gather as much information about the transaction as possible and then make the decision about who is ultimately the beneficiary. As long as it's based on the knowledge that you have about the transaction, you should have no problems.
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#2137197 - 07/07/17 01:06 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
Daisy Doodle Offline
Diamond Poster
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,030
Southern U.S.
I am hoping that if that happened at my bank, the branch would inform the customer that we do not permit customer to transact in their accounts on behalf of non-customers.

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#2137277 - 07/07/17 06:41 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
WillyWonka Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 35
Midwest USA
You guys are assuming that the remitter on the cashier check is different than the one with the cash - the remitter is the same as the transactor in all of these case scenarios.

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#2137488 - 07/11/17 02:30 PM Re: CTR, non-customer,cashier check - help! WillyWonka
John Burnett Offline
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John Burnett
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 40,086
Cape Cod
It could be easier to understand what's going on if we would stop misusing the terms "benefactor" and "beneficiary" when referring to CTRs. A benefactor is someone who bestows a benefit or gift upon someone else, or a supporter of someone else. A beneficiary is the person receiving a benefit. If we stick with the phrase in the regulation -- person on whose behalf the transaction is completed -- it's often easier to sort out who is who.

When discussing a purchase of a cashier's check, the remitter is almost always the person on whose behalf the purchase is being made (not the payee of the check).
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