If you opt to not report HECL loans and you have a loan here that you want to pay off a HECL and also have new money to consolodate debt, would you say that this refinance be reportable or not? The old loan and the new loan are both secured by a home, but does the old loan need to be HMDA as well? Does this make any sense?

If you are paying off and closing the HELOC then it would be a refi. If you are paying down the HELOC but leaving it open it would not be reportable.

Thanks for your promptness in answering my question. Have a good day!

Cowboy Fan is correct. It does not matter what the previous loan was for or what any of the new loan proceeds are for (other than if they are for a home purchase or home improvement), if the new obligation is dwelling secured and it is satisfying and replacing an existing dwelling secured obligation then it meets the definition of a refinancing.

Okay, sounds good! Thanks Mr. Persfull!

Please help me get this straight. If we are opening a new HELOC to pay off an existing loan secured by a dwelling plus some money will be used to consolidate debt, this would be a reportable application as a refinance. We would report it even though we opted not to report HELOC's.
Do we report it because it is not a HP or HI?

No. HELOCs are optional reporting.

The reportable status applies to the new loan, not the old loan. Therefore you have to ascertain if your new loan meets the definition of a home purchase, home improvement or a refinancing. If it meets one of those definitions AND it does not fall within one of the exemptions then it is reportable.

The GIR addresses HELOC's for home purchase and home improvement as being optional. I'm looking at page C-5. I cannot find where it mentions optional reporting of HELOC's for the sole purpose of refinancing an existing obligation.
Don't mean to be difficult; just want to able to substantiate my position.

From the FAQ on the FFIEC website:

" Refinancing --- line of credit. If a dwelling-secured line of credit satisfies and replaces another dwelling-secured obligation, is the line required to be reported as a "refinancing"?

Answer: No. A dwelling-secured line of credit that satisfies and replaces another dwelling-secured obligation is not required to be reported as a "refinancing," regardless of whether the line is for consumer or business purposes."

Thank you, thank you!
just what I needed.
Enjoy your holiday!

If a second is taken to pay off a HELOC with another lender and extra money to pay bills...this would not be reported at all? or would be a refinance?

If it is a closed-end loan secured by a dwelling and it is satisfying and replacing the HELOC secured by a dwelling to the same borrower then it would be a reportable refinancing.